FAO EVERYONE- Need peoples views

[Sparky]

Hey guys, I thought it would be a good idea to get peoples views/experiences on the Standard brakes on any Starlet to help me identify the problem with them a little better

Any views or experiences you guys have had with them, could you please post it in this thread.

Thanks Lewis

[Jozinobi]

They give you a LOT of fade before coming to a stop, which takes some time also if coming down from higher speeds.

The brake pads do seem to last, but will be destroyed by aftermarket discs i.e grooved.

Joz

[Sparky]

More detail please guys

[morgey]

my fronts are getting realy low and im now geting bad fade and its starting to pull off to the left under hard braking. but my cars hibernating now so all will be beter come the new year.

[riko666]

unless you bought 50p Brake Pads, or are driving like a fool and flooring the brake pedal from fast...repeatedly....downhill....doubt you'll be getting brake fade. I haven't experienced brake fade on trackdays, so lord knows how people manage to on the road...

[Bean]

I think the standard brakes on the starlet gt are pretty good (not as good as my crx tho) seem to bring mine to a stop without too much effort even though mines got a fair bit of power. i was told by the previous owner it had uprated front pads, still has the standard discs. I did fit a master cylinder brace a bit ago that firmed up the pedal a bit.

[Rich]

Personally I think the standard breaks on the starlet are quite good for a 1.3, the rotors are vented (which reduces heat build up on the disk).

In comparison to my fiesta 1.3. It used to have Solid disks with the thickness of a milk bottle top and they were prone to warping...

So I think their good for standard factory parts.

[Sparky]

I'm not sure what exactly you are asking, do you have a particular problem with your brakes?

Its a project im doing for Uni

Just doing this thread for a bit of research on problems that people have so I can explain the problem and how I'm going to solve it

Keep it coming guys

[Bourkey]

As said i think they are fairly good brakes, not the best by far but by no means the worst.

They can be greatly improved by better disks, master cylinder stopper, better pads and braided hoses. Also the drums at the back let them down but a rear disk conversion fixes this.

Hope this helps.

Bourkey

[paul w]

There is nothing really wrong with them for normal driving conditions. However reapeated heavy braking will heat them up too much and they will fade. I only had it once when driving like a nutter down a very steep twisty hill,was VERY lucky to stop at the bottom! I'm certain it was my arse gripping the seat that stopped me in the end!

[starlet86]

I have aftermarket grooved disks and i get really bad brake fade especially with a few people in my car, only if im braking hard a few times! I think there pitted so need new ones i guess!

[riko666]

grooved discs will only wear your pads faster...they serve no other benefit other than to "look" good

[Rich]

Yeah grooved disks stop your pads from glazing over. Drilled and vented disperse heat.

[Sparky]

grooved discs will only wear your pads faster...they serve no other benefit other than to "look" good

As Rich mentioned above it stops pad Glazing as the grooves disperse the gases that build up between the pads and the discs

[Rich]

As Rich mentioned above it stops pad Glazing as the grooves disperse the gases that build up between the pads and the discs

Well actually sparky... don't mean to be a smart ass... but the grooves just remove layers off the pads this stops them glazing over.

[59bhp]

actually.... dont mean to be a smart arse...... but the grooves in the disc are there to dispurse the gas that is created when braking hard. This gas is what causes "brake fade" as the pads are (for want of a better phrase) aquaplaning on the gas.

[scutch0]

the brakes on the v are ok in normal driving and when ive needed to slam on them they have stopped me, but i find they dont inspire confidence.

but then again neither does the abs system!

[Rich]

actually.... dont mean to be a smart arse...... but the grooves in the disc are there to dispurse the gas that is created when braking hard. This gas is what causes "brake fade" as the pads are (for want of a better phrase) aquaplaning on the gas.

Well no... the grooves are designed to cut into the pad, drilled holes are designed to dipurse the heat, thats why drilled disks are prone to cracking as they heat up and cool down quickly.

[starlet86]

So is it better to stick with standard discs rather than grooved?!

[Rich]

No grooved work great but rinse your pads, and you get hell of alot of brake dust, drilled are also good but I have heard and seen them crack.

Grooved also look cool 20 Groove FTW!!!

[riko666]

if your pads ARE glazing, you've obviously got the wrong compound pads, you don't NEED the de-glazing properties of Grooved discs, if your pads are glazing and you're getting brake fade, buy some better pads/stop driving like a fool. Drilled disperse heat, get rid of gas bla bla...yes, but reduces the braking surface area. And drilled discs crack cause people just think "drill a hole and BANG, it's done", no chamferring of the hole, no stress relieving, nothing. Again, not needed. AP Racing, Brembo, Wilwood etc, they'll all quote that they're street drilled/grooved discs are for aesthetic reasons only

[Sparky]

actually.... dont mean to be a smart arse...... but the grooves in the disc are there to dispurse the gas that is created when braking hard. This gas is what causes "brake fade" as the pads are (for want of a better phrase) aquaplaning on the gas.

Thats exactly what I thought

If you picture it, the gases have to go in the grooves as there is know-where else to go and as the disc rotates the gas is forced up the groove towards the outer part of the disc and into the atmosphere.

Thats what I can see in my head anyway

[Guest Enzo]

my view, the brakes are well under par by goin on some of the other braking set ups on other cars out on the market today,

to put into context i had a modis for a couple of months and the brakes on that were superb, and put up with countless emergency stops from a ton just for the craic, (followed by the hazard lights automaticaly coming on lo)l with no or very little brake fade, and thats a standard set up with a decent sized master cylinder and thick disc along with a nice sized single piston

with starlets

with the calipers the sliding pins are prone to sezing and can be an easy problem assocaited to the shit pedal feel, so sorting that out would help, most poeple on here might have suffered this.

ive also had numerous pads, i find that stanard pads or oe cheap replicas are ok for normal driving but when i go for a boost hit they wilt away, on quite a few ocasions ive had standard pads smoking easy.

with uprated pads, ive had green stuff, endless, and ferredo and had numerous disks crack on me uprated, grooved, drilled and grooved and standard,

i blame this on the higher friction compound along with shit ventilation around the disc

ive performed a celica single piston upgrade with thicker discs ~(22 as oposed to 18) and they cracked also with greenstuff pads

obviusly its my driving style and driving like a total idiot but i strongly think the standard set up is underpar, its blatantly obvius, jump into a new car and give it a good stomp and you would be hard pushed not to agree.

people can say there ok but you can never have enough braking power, its the whole confidence inspiring thing.

im asociating all the cracked discs with a heat problem so in the process of experimenting with air ducts through the standard fogs to try and remedy this problem

my last set up which includes bmcs and braded lines was ok (those two mods go some way to relieving the vague pedal feel)

but lasted six months before the uprated grooved endless discs starded to crack with endless pads,

so in the name of reserch i have a set of gt4 four piston floating calipers and 315 by 32mm discs

im almost certain that the master cylinders up to the job just waiting on some mechine work then they should be on, il let you know how i get on.

[scutch0]

i had 3g 20 groove discs and greenstuff pads on my old n/a and the standard disc and pads on my v are about 4x better.

i would stick with a plain disc for road use.

[rob_bower]

this thread has put the cat among the pigeons i was looking at upgrading to 20 groove 3g discs with braided lines and mintex pads but having read this thread im re-considering if its worth spending my pennies on these!!! i have always thought the starlet standard brakes to be well under par even the brakes on my mk3 fez which are prone to fade and warped discs were better than the starlet ones even the corsa's brakes too!!! the starlet standard dont instill me with great confidence when braking hard yea they stop but not massivley well!!!

h'mmmm im now having a dilema