Idrees Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I got my car mapped yesterday and the results are poor. That doesn't usually bother me if the car drives good, but it doesn't. Brief Spec:Stock 4E-FTEWEPR F/F Manifold KitStock TD04LTiAL MVSFujitsubo Power GetterHDI FMIC (modified hot side to make it rear entry)Denso 370'sWalbro 255LPHApexi AVC-REMBNew HKS plugs, Magnecor KV85's, Distributor cap, Rotor armRan on Shell V Power, mapped at 1 bar. During mapping, no issues were reported other than 'something's restricting the car from making more power' towards the end, when I was given the result of 156 WHP / 137 lb ft. I was disappointed when I took it for a test run. Between 4-4600 rpm the car just holds back, it looks like the AVC-R has been set up in a way to make the boost come in very slowly. I understand this is common practice but not to this extent. For example in 5th gear it makes 1 bar at 4900 RPM. That's almost 1k RPM too late. The mapper thinks the modified FMIC could be causing a restriction but I'm not convinced. Here's a picture. Graphs:This first thing I'll be doing is fitting a 1 bar spring in the wastegate (currently 0.6 bar) and turning the boost controller off to see how it performs. This obviously won't help with the power output but it may boost better/quicker. This will rule out either a broken boost controller or a badly set up one. Any thoughts? I'm going to the ring in 6 weeks and need a semi quick car to get me there as my forged 5E won't be ready in time! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 (edited) that wont make a diff on the cooler its nicly shaped to the core unless a baffle was welded in like in an r5 gtt cooler ??? i woud eliminate the ebc 1st ( also mabe the ewg is leaking ??? ) because boosting sooo late ? Edited March 29, 2015 by 5e colin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Idrees Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 that wont make a diff on the cooler its nicly shaped to the core unless a baffle was welded in like in an r5 gtt cooler ??? i woud eliminate the ebc 1st ( also mabe the ewg is leaking ??? ) because boosting sooo late ?No baffle in the FMIC. The wastegate is brand new and fault free. Before fitting the Apexi AVCR I ran 1 bar on spring pressure just to test it. That was on the old map so I only gave it a couple of quick test runs but it boosted perfectly and made full boost a lot sooner. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 thats a low figure without a doubt.I wouldnt have thought it is the intercooler either.defo unlikely.so I take it u have double checked all your timing marks(bottom pully,cam dots and top cam pully) and also the timing itself is on 10° btdc.please dont hate me for asking the above as its something even I got wrong until a day or so ago. lol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 get some1 to set up the avcr properly Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 also an obvious question is whats ure compression on each cylinder ?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 dude I just studied ure *air pressure* and it doesn't evwn go up IMEDIATLEY and purposely spike and then settle down. thatll be boost control. for me I swear by manual boost controller.they do not go wrong and mine works beautifully well. I get a lil spike to 1.04 and imediatley settles to 1.01 and holds so well.thats in conjunction with a cheapy external. have u lapped in ure external wastegate valve ? I know its a tial but still I wouldnt hesitate to do it the day I got it. could also be a small boost leak not helping with spooling depending on whether u find ure boist control issue Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Idrees Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 thats a low figure without a doubt.I wouldnt have thought it is the intercooler either.defo unlikely.so I take it u have double checked all your timing marks(bottom pully,cam dots and top cam pully) and also the timing itself is on 10° btdc.please dont hate me for asking the above as its something even I got wrong until a day or so ago. lol.I'll be double checking the timing marks too. It only crossed my mind after seeing your thread last week. Ignition timing was set by the mapper.get some1 to set up the avcr properly This is also something I might have to do, I'll try another unit / sensor first as I can borrow it from Uzzy's car. also an obvious question is whats ure compression on each cylinder ??This was also tested by the mapper, it was between 150-160 across all 4 which he was happy with. dude I just studied ure *air pressure* and it doesn't evwn go up IMEDIATLEY and purposely spike and then settle down. thatll be boost control. for me I swear by manual boost controller.they do not go wrong and mine works beautifully well. I get a lil spike to 1.04 and imediatley settles to 1.01 and holds so well.thats in conjunction with a cheapy external. have u lapped in ure external wastegate valve ? I know its a tial but still I wouldnt hesitate to do it the day I got it. could also be a small boost leak not helping with spooling depending on whether u find ure boist control issueI've used an AVC-R without issues on my past 3 Starlets, two of which were the same spec as this. It's my favourite boost controller and has never failed me (so far). As mentioned above, I ran the turbo at 1 bar (spring pressure) before fitting the AVC-R on the old map and it was spot on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 okies well let us know how u get on with cam belt/timing points ie if they are all correct. as for the boost issue, its still a factor BUT even up your top end revs just under a bar (when it finally makes it) powers still not that good which is meaning something else isnt right which I guess is what ure tuners on about. :-( just to emphasise about the intercooler thing. mine goes through much more "awkward" angles than ures and I have no flow issues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gibb Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 not leaking from the hose clips just off the turbo? they might not be clamping it tight enough Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DevonGT Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Even though the scalings different, shouldn't the power and torque be the same at 5250rpm? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WallaceGlanza Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 The intercooler may well be causing a bit of restriction, the end tank volume looks like it would be a lot less due to the shape of it - it looks like it would effectively be funnelling the air too. Very tidy welding though! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
maddox710 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I've got the same intercooler made ages made by Dean a while ago and it made 297bhp. So it's clear not that Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 didnt think so.mines alot worse for flow and does fine.so that's the cooler ruled out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gazza g Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 surely the mapper should have set the avc-r up when he/she was mapping? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
_shaun_ Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I'd start with checking the ebc out. Then if it's holding back higher in the Rev range possibly look at checking your spark gaps and what not. My first car I had mapped was holding back at high end turned out to be a weak spark. We swaped out leads/dizzy checked plug gaps and then it turned out my alternator was about to die so changed that and it boosted like a champ to 1.3bar on the td04 stock engine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Idrees Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 not leaking from the hose clips just off the turbo? they might not be clamping it tight enoughNo boost leaks are present mate. That's not the issue here. I wish it was though as it would be an easy fix. Even though the scalings different, shouldn't the power and torque be the same at 5250rpm?I'm not sure mate, can say. The intercooler may well be causing a bit of restriction, the end tank volume looks like it would be a lot less due to the shape of it - it looks like it would effectively be funnelling the air too. Very tidy welding though!A bit of a restriction may be possible, not I don't see it causing a loss of almost 30 WHP?I've got the same intercooler made ages made by Dean a while ago and it made 297bhp. So it's clear not that He did say mention that. That's another reason I'm confident the cooler isn't the issue. surely the mapper should have set the avc-r up when he/she was mapping? He did, but I'm just not sure how we'll be set it up or if there's an issue with it somewhere. If there is, it certainly wasn't mentioned during mapping, which is should have been. I'd start with checking the ebc out. Then if it's holding back higher in the Rev range possibly look at checking your spark gaps and what not. My first car I had mapped was holding back at high end turned out to be a weak spark. We swaped out leads/dizzy checked plug gaps and then it turned out my alternator was about to die so changed that and it boosted like a champ to 1.3bar on the td04 stock engine.It's not holding back as it would with an ignition issue, it's as if the boost controller isn't allowing the boost to build up as quick as it should. It builds up quickly to 4000 RPM, then holds at around 0.9 bar then slowly reaches 1.0 bar by 5000 RPM. If I turn it off and run 0.6 bar spring pressure then it drives perfectly. I'll get a video uploaded although it is quite shakey. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 if it were me I wud lap the wastegate valve in then...........fit a hugh quality manual boost controller,the same as what I have.they work brilliantly and fualtlessly and boost is in full and strong by 4,000rpmheres the link. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220537042109?redirect=mobile Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 as I said earlier it spikes to 1.04 (which is barely over)and it then sits bang on 1.01 bar ALL the way to redline.they dont go wrong and becuase they are good quality ball and spring type they dont open wastegate til last second.I swear by them and a good few off me mates have them on my recommendation and they are extremely happy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Idrees Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 High quality boost controller? Lol. The Apexi AVC-R is regarding as one of the best on the market and like I've said, I've used them before. If it turns out to be faulty I'll buy another AVC-R. I have several MBC's same as that around chucked around my unit, some even better such as Turbosmart. They've all come on cars I've bought and I don't intent to use any of them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Socks Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Doubt your AVC-R is faulty tbh. There a pretty solid EBC. Ive not known of one have any issues. Nor do I think the intercooler would stop the car making any more then 150bhp. Thats a bit crazy. Who wired in the EMB or was it a plug & play harness...? Cant see why there would be an issue from what's been discussed here. Spec should be decent. A TD04 on 0.8bar without any kind of management should make that figure.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Idrees Posted March 30, 2015 Author Share Posted March 30, 2015 Doubt your AVC-R is faulty tbh. There a pretty solid EBC. Ive not known of one have any issues.Nor do I think the intercooler would stop the car making any more then 150bhp. Thats a bit crazy.Who wired in the EMB or was it a plug & play harness...?Cant see why there would be an issue from what's been discussed here. Spec should be decent.A TD04 on 0.8bar without any kind of management should make that figure....Same here Matt, never seen an AVC-R fail. EMB is wired in with a plug and play harness. I'll run it on a 1 bar spring and see how I get on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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