akaye4000 Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Sounds like the avcr is setup wrong mine did the same when it managed to swap sensor input Quote Link to post Share on other sites
daniel_g Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 He might have set the AVCR up the lazy way, the self learn mode, which isnt the best. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flaminsam Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Just so people are aware this is axle bhp. So at the hubs, not flywheel or on a rolling road. The power and torque figures should cross at 5250rpm but I guess the aspect ratio is out to get the graph on the scale. Is your walbro a high pressure one iddy? There are two types. It may flow 225lph but only at 35psi for instance. Anything more than that and the pump will cavitate and burn out. Plus if your running 1 bar of boost your pump will need to be able to run 50psi of pressure without cavitating. 35psi+15psi boost will give you 50 psi of fuel pressure required. Looking at the graph your boost does seem a little strange. Mine hits 0.8 and holds to redline by 3500 that's a td04 on ZISCO manifold. Is your internal wastegate closed properly? Not leaking allowing exhaust gasses to bypass the turbine? Il be taking mine to the same mapper hopefully next year so il see what happens there. Just so people are aware on a ct9 setup with fuel pressure reg and running 0.8 bar with an arc top mount this dyno showed a figure of 109whp. Just to put that into context. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Idrees Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 Just so people are aware this is axle bhp. So at the hubs, not flywheel or on a rolling road.The power and torque figures should cross at 5250rpm but I guess the aspect ratio is out to get the graph on the scale.Is your walbro a high pressure one iddy? There are two types. It may flow 225lph but only at 35psi for instance. Anything more than that and the pump will cavitate and burn out. Plus if your running 1 bar of boost your pump will need to be able to run 50psi of pressure without cavitating. 35psi+15psi boost will give you 50 psi of fuel pressure required. Looking at the graph your boost does seem a little strange. Mine hits 0.8 and holds to redline by 3500 that's a td04 on ZISCO manifold. Is your internal wastegate closed properly? Not leaking allowing exhaust gasses to bypass the turbine? Il be taking mine to the same mapper hopefully next year so il see what happens there. Just so people are aware on a ct9 setup with fuel pressure reg and running 0.8 bar with an arc top mount this dyno showed a figure of 109whp. Just to put that into context. I compared my results with other Starlets mapped there, and it was still very low. We compared it with Charl's graph (is hers a stock CT9 or Hybrid?) and hers made full boost a lot earlier and made more power. John's made 219 WHP at 1.4 bar. The typical TD04 set up @ 1.4 bar usually makes around 270 BHP on Dyno Dynamics rollers. So if we use 20% as a transmission loss (simply as I've seen many mappers use 20% for some reason) that gives around 225 WHP. I know these figures are not accurate, but it does show that the hub dyno doesn't read much lower than a rolling road. My plan was to take it to a local Dyno Dynamics RR just to compare the final power, I will still do that when the cars running right just for my own reference. The Walbro is definitely the high pressure type. It really is laggy compared to any other TD04 set up I've seen. On the old map it made 1 bar at 4000 RPM. As for the internal wastegate, that's a very good point. It's welded all the way round but it's still something that's worth checking. If it doesn't hold boost correctly on the wastegate spring only, I'll remove the turbo and have a look. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DevonGT Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Will interesting to see if you go to a DD, as like you say they should read pretty close. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flaminsam Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 The 109whp pull was on a standard ct9 with a wepr power up kit. Charls made 163whp on a wepr evolution manifold with a td04 externally gated. Even with only 163whp it goes like a bullet. Smooth controllable power all the way through the Rev range. Did your mapper set up the fuel pressure reg at all? Did he mention what duty cycle your injectors are at wide open throttle at the top of the Rev range? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
_shaun_ Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Worth noting my first glanza was on stock fuel pumpAnd Injectors and for and it took 1.3bar on td04 before the injectors were close to maxing out so at 1 bar none of the fueling system should have any effect unless it's faulty Quote Link to post Share on other sites
maddox710 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Sure it's not a front entry td05 they are hopelessly laggy and make fuck all power under a bar :0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Idrees Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Will interesting to see if you go to a DD, as like you say they should read pretty close. I'll be sure to post up results to compare the two The 109whp pull was on a standard ct9 with a wepr power up kit. Charls made 163whp on a wepr evolution manifold with a td04 externally gated. Even with only 163whp it goes like a bullet. Smooth controllable power all the way through the Rev range. Did your mapper set up the fuel pressure reg at all? Did he mention what duty cycle your injectors are at wide open throttle at the top of the Rev range? Ah, we thought she was running a CT9. I didn't look at what RPM hers made full boost, but it was a lot sooner than mine. I am using an OEM FPR. He made no note on the injector duty cycle, I'm sure he'd have mentioned if they were close to maxing out but as mentioned below many people run more boost / higher power using stock injectors. I only fitted them as I bought them a few months ago 'just in case'. Worth noting my first glanza was on stock fuel pumpAnd Injectors and for and it took 1.3bar on td04 before the injectors were close to maxing out so at 1 bar none of the fueling system should have any effect unless it's faulty Again, I would have expected the mapper to mention any issues he saw with the fueling etc. Sure it's not a front entry td05 they are hopelessly laggy and make fuck all power under a bar :0 I better double check, but I am rather sure it's a TD04L Update! I may be a step closer to finding the fault. I opened the waste gate to fit the smaller spring I removed previous to mapping. I checked the colour of the springs (White/Green) and these are 0.8, yet my car still boosts to 1 bar with them fitted! I bought the waste gate such a long time before fitting it and I forgot that it was in fact a 0.8 spring (combination of a 0.5 and 0.3). I switched the AVC-R off before taking it for a run and it still reached 1 bar, I then completely removed the vacuum lines to ensure there wasn't a fault with any of the vac lines or the boost solenoid. I took it for another run and it's the same, it even reached 1.05 bar. So now I need to find out why it's over boosting using waste gate spring pressure only. I will start by removing the turbo to check the wastegate penny is sealing properly as mentioned above. I have already removed the wastegate to check the valve is sealing properly and that the diaphragm isn't damaged. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Socks Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 If the wastegate penny is leaking, that would lower your boost, not raise it Idrees... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Idrees Posted April 1, 2015 Author Share Posted April 1, 2015 Good point.I'll do some more investigating and see what I can find. I am still going to check it though as I now have a bit of doubt in the back of my mind! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 keep us informed ! :-D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JayJ Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Ah, we thought she was running a CT9. I didn't look at what RPM hers made full boost, but it was a lot sooner than mine. I am using an OEM FPR. He made no note on the injector duty cycle, I'm sure he'd have mentioned if they were close to maxing out but as mentioned below many people run more boost / higher power using stock injectors. I only fitted them as I bought them a few months ago 'just in case'. Again, I would have expected the mapper to mention any issues he saw with the fueling etc. I better double check, but I am rather sure it's a TD04L I think the dyno type makes all the difference and rolling road dynos will give a much "better"(not accurate?) result as the power is calculated with many different and changing variables. My car made 145whp/147ftlb in hub dyno with Tongs CT9 for comparison. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Idrees Posted April 7, 2015 Author Share Posted April 7, 2015 UpdateWell, I'm no closer to finding the issue.Removed the EMB, set the timing back to 8-10 degrees, fitted stock injectors and it's still got the same lag/over boosting issue.The first problem I need to fix is the boost control. I've removed the TiAL waste gate and took the car for a run, it still makes 0.25 bar of boost. I believe it should make no boost at all so that rules out a faulty waste gate. Removed the turbo, everything looks fine and the waste gate penny flap is welded shut with no visible leaks.Next step is possibly try a different manifold set up as the old ram horn kit was working and boosting perfectly! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ethanep82 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 UpdateWell, I'm no closer to finding the issue.Removed the EMB, set the timing back to 8-10 degrees, fitted stock injectors and it's still got the same lag/over boosting issue.The first problem I need to fix is the boost control. I've removed the TiAL waste gate and took the car for a run, it still makes 0.25 bar of boost. I believe it should make no boost at all so that rules out a faulty waste gate. Removed the turbo, everything looks fine and the waste gate penny flap is welded shut with no visible leaks.Next step is possibly try a different manifold set up as the old ram horn kit was working and boosting perfectly! Have you 100% ruled out the AVCR then? I know it's a great unit, but it's still I thought? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
maddox710 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Yeah I'd say solenoid it's venting when it shouldn't be Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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