theres some good deals to be had but its knowing whats going to be right, ive heard of norco but never met anyone who rides one to give a user review it killed me to find it was broken i loved my frame :'( but onwards and upwards Orange bikes are savage looking, but they certainly hold there value and the cheaper ones are spares or repairs ive always had hard tails and its just time for a change as i don't ride street anymore will only be woods james