Improving TD04 Spool

[micky boy]

A lot of my mates are big ford boys running big power and very rarely do I see them use dv's just full on chatter when I was ct9 I had a hks dv then took it off and had chatter and didn't notice any difference in spool time and now td04 at a bar and I hit boost at 3800 rpm everytime no dv I think it's more down to the personal preference of each person and what they want hear

The reason that big ford boys run without a DV is because they are most likely ex gated set ups there for its releasing the pressure from the turbo so that it can spool up quickly! I also arent a fan of fluter.

I know on the mark 1 focus RS they dont like DV's they only run right when useing the stock recirc valve or an aftermarket recirc valve.

[DevonGT]

Same witn the Evo's, they don't like DV's either.

[AdamB]

Unfortunately I haven't got any pics, by the time I'd thought about getting some it had already been bolted to my forged engine. The turbo's proving to be very responsive even off boost as I'm still running the engine in which as a slightly lower then standard CR.

Sounds good mate, do you know what maximum boost and power it will take and make?

[pick1]

Mikey boy 3 of my close mates are big for boys I'm sure I posted pics up of his red escort once they dont run external waste or dv they don't feel the need to there are very few that run external watergate and the ones that do have it more for the screamer I've seen 250 rite up to 500bhp running neither of those set ups just flutter/chatter oddkid creations is a big ford tuner check some of his work out , but there are people just running dv's for the noise as depending on the person and what they would prefer to hear

[maddox710]

Yeah but the ct9 is made out of the most indesturctable metal in the world so you can flutter that beast all your life no worries

[grimr3ap3r_]

i run no dv on a ct9 for 2 years,

no problems at all,

[Dave D Glanza V]

Ive had my turbo, manifold, downpipe and screamer ceramic coated will improve spool loads on my td04l

link for more info-

http://www.zircotec.com/page/turbochargers/138

[3SGTEGT]

Fit an aftermarket ecu and feel then, how much quicker it spools up. You will never gain the ultimate performance of a td04l without a aftermarket ecu. The standard ecu is holding its spool capabilities.

[Ricky@Race-Tech]

More boost more flutter. its a bigger turbo so .6 bar is like blowing down a cave, its not realy doing much to push the turbo. also flutter is gay!! It kills turbos fact! Its called compressor surge and its air backing up against the turbo and even more comicaly makes the car more laggy!!

True compressor surge is when the turbo is being driven. (by the exhaust wheel) and the engine cannot consume the air. When you lift off the turbo isn't been driven. So is slowed down relatively slowly. I've never seen a turbo damaged by not running a dump valve.

Lol futter isnt good full stop. if it was ok why would manufacturers waste mony on producing recirc valves?? Next you will be saying anti lag isnt bad for turbos either.

Manfacturers run recirc valves to make the turbo's as quiet as possible. If you don't run one, they chatter, and its not to everybodies taste.

[Ricky@Race-Tech]

Ive had my turbo, manifold, downpipe and screamer ceramic coated will improve spool loads on my td04l

link for more info-

http://www.zircotec....rbochargers/138

While you might see the smallest of increases in EGT this wouldn't make the turbo spool a lot faster.

If you can increase the gas/volume/speed then you will see quicker spool, but your not going to see more than a few RPM gained.

[Ricky@Race-Tech]

Water injection won't decrease lag/spool time, it will just improve the efficiency of the turbo by reducing the air temperature.

Plus the water injection would have to be added before the compressor.

If you have the money, a billet comp wheel as its lighter. Or nitrous Or a bigger engine.

Billet wheels are slightly more efficient and lighter, however the exhaust wheel is FAR heavier than the compressor wheel anyway so the biggest weight savings are to be had here.

Back on topic, when are you seeing full boost? What RPM's?

Anyway I better get back to work

[StuDoc 72]

As said by Ricky can I also Say that running no DV or having it flutter/chatter DOES NOT damage a turbo. Its a complete myth and does no harm to the turbo what so ever. Also it sounds better IMO

[micky boy]

Lol this is now turned into a damage turbo thread.

The point is running without a dump valve will slow the turbin down so will give you a miller second of lag lol and at the end of the day this thread is about trying to make a td04 spool quicker and a miller second of lag is just to much for my likeing Every miller second counts

Edited July 20, 2012 by micky boy

[zebedee]

Ive had my turbo, manifold, downpipe and screamer ceramic coated will improve spool loads on my td04l

link for more info-

http://www.zircotec....rbochargers/138

You must be rich because i nearly fell over when i got a quote from them, think i'll stick to heat wrap even if i do have to replace it every once in a while!

[Ricky@Race-Tech]

If you have a DV then all the boost pressure is lost, intercooler/boost pipes etc all need to be refilled.

Ontop of this, a "compressor" has less resistance when its NOT moving air. I.e. If the DV is open and its moving air it slows quicker.

If you get a normal vacuum cleaner and block the air intake you'll here the speed of the motor increase. (or computer fan etc)

Obviously when the air is coming out the opposite way there is slightly more resistance but on datalogs i've seen the boost to be restored quicker without using a DV. Also 90% of DV's we test leak.

Lol this is now turned into a damage turbo thread.

The point is running without a dump valve will slow the turbin down so will give you a miller second of lag lol and at the end of the day this thread is about trying to make a td04 spool quicker and a miller second of lag is just to much for my likeing Every miller second counts

None of the above would make any difference at all to spool of the turbo. Thats just turbo recovery time which would be much higher in the rpm's anyway.

[micky boy]

Hmm thanks for that info Ricky looks like ill be selling my blitz dump valve very soon then lol

[turbo Grant]

Got an ebc on your car?

[zebedee]

^{http://youtu.be/n_qCd6Lx7pE}

Edited July 20, 2012 by zebedee

[maddox710]

How does the turbine keep a constant high rpm?

[zebedee]

I struggle to totally 100% understand it, esp as Prodrive always keep it secret, 99.8% of explanations on the net are total BS by people with no experience of it, and the anti-lag I've played with has always been throttle bypass or EGR anti-lag, this is a step beyond that.

But here's the basics...

Basically, it turns the turbo in to a jet engine (they very similar anyhow), all anti-lag does, but this seems to do it best.

Turbo compressor feeds air into a combustion chamber just before turbine, there it ignites and spins the turbine, which spins the compressor, which feeds even more air into the combustion chamber, and so on until it gets faster n faster etc.

Feeds air via a bypass valve from boost pipe to ex manifold (just like EGR anti-lag ive messed with).

The bypass valve (its an electronic solenoid) can control the amount of air going from boost pipe to exhaust, and therefore control how wild it is.

IMO I would say even if this wasnt controlled electronically, a normal wastegate to bleed off the exhaust gas would do the same job of stopping the turbo overspeeding,

Bits that I'm still not 100% on is-

Whats in the combustion chamber (rocket). Some say its hollow, some say its just like a combustion chamber on a jet engine. Fairly simple either way.

The fuel and ign when its running- They claim nothing is changed from when its not. But without more fuel to go with the more air, IMO it should go so lean itd stop combusting. Fuck knows.

The fuel and ign to start it- To get it going I wouldve thought it needed more than a good rev (like you see in the vid), Id've thought itd need more fuel and poss ign retard to get it ignited and started. But again, claims I've seen are nothing is changed.

[Mo3]

easy, take it off and put a tf035 off a Subaru gt Forrester 98 on it, same flange bolts straight on starts boosting at 1500rpm

[Asad]

Thought id ask here instead of making a new thread unless the op minds?

Anyone know how the tdo4 n gt25 match up? In terms of full boost rpm n max power on a standard engine?

From what i understand the gt25 is bearing turbo so will spool faster but how how much?

[AdamB]

There are two trim types of GT25 that I have found, a GT2554R or a GT2560R.

At 1 bar it will be very efficient, and will make more power than a td04 at this boost, but according to the flow map it will only really flow 1.4 bar maximum.

Spool wise the GT2554R will make 1 bar boost around 3400rpm.

Source http://www.atpturbo.com/root/maps/gt25r.htm

[Asad]

Thanks, which of the two would be best suited? Power goal wise im looking to squeeze 240-250 from a fresh rebuild driven on street so would like boost to kick in low down...well as low as possible

[AdamB]

The GT2554R will be best, will only really make about 270bhp max, you will probably be able to get it to spool a lot sooner with a good ebc, good map and an efficient intercooler.