power fc

[fraser280789]

thinking of changing out my emanage ultimate and going power fc.

any comments on advantages and disadvantages?

what money are they costing usually 2nd hand?

[Azz]

Advantages just look at Socks page it tells it all tbh, but price your usualy looking 800 iirc he did manage to pick his up for like 250 off some guy on ebay that didnt know what he had

[shorty]

700-900 depending on if they have the hand controller plus mapping on top. Is better cheaper standalone options for the money imo. Power fc is old by todays standards yet everyone loves em? Wouldnt by a windpws 95 pc just because it had a brand name on though funny eh?

[Socks]

Power fc is tried and tested an weka well. My car is soooo much smoother now compared to emanage. Standalones all need wiring in. Powerfc is plug n play which is another benefit.

[mattyD]

wolf ecus are also plug and play

[Socks]

wolf ecus are also plug and play

Not tried and tested on eps tho.... Yet....

[pockrockgtti]

I use a PFC on my car. I cant fault it, my tuner had never laid eyes on one before, and he got great results mapping it. Sure it may be a bit old, there are more modern standalone ecus with more features you can get for the same price.But i doubt the other standalone systems will hold there value as well as a PFC. Like others have said u'll probably be looking at 800-1000 depending on wether its a complete kit or not. If you pay that now, and in 6months time u get bord and decide u fancy a change, i guarantee u'll get what you payed for it back. The ep91 versions tend to be little bit higher in price then the ep82 versions for some reason. What i did was buy the ep82 version, and then i rewired the harness so it fitted my ep91. Saved myself a good £200.

[pick1]

CC red alert I can remember that bad boi lol

And I agree it has been tried and tested many many times and has alway had good results which is why they became so popular and hold there money so well.

I would deffo be interested though to see what the like of the wolf ecu results are on a good ep set up just to see how far technology has come and the benefits behind it

It's like anything else when it comes to modding your own car though personnel preference I wouldn't Mind either of the ecu's one that tried and tested or one that's kinda new to the scene as long as u could get good results and a great running motor

[_shaun_]

plug and play on a standalone doesnt realy seem like that good an argument as to why one system is better than the other. people running standalone's have more than likely put in hundreds of hours of research into there build along with thousands of pounds so for the sake of a 2 hours to wire in a standalone or what £80 to your mapper? id rather get a newer system with far more features. yea they will hold there price among the few that like to pay out for the ohh my god!! JDM! factor but with more well priced standalone's coming out the pfc will drop in price aswell.

true there tryed and tested but a few years ago a ct9 hybrid was tryed and tested and a td04 wasnt. its people that stray from the tryed and tested ways that push the way forward in the tuning scene. of course we all build our cars to our own preference so it all comes down to personal option what system is best suited but to some one like matt who is realy pushing what a 4e can do the statement tryed and tested doesnt seem right

Edited September 7, 2012 by _shaun_

[mattyD]

Uprated injectors, fuel rail, forged internals, ridiculous turbo kits, coil packs ect isnt 90's technology, fair enough the PFC is tried and tested but I bet you would get a better map with the software available on the newer ecu, albeit with more mapping needed but surely the end result would be better?

You may not be able to get the loom for the wolf directly from them but I know TD and wolf have worked together to develop one and they are available

Plus........I wouldn't get a windows 8 pc to run C&C red alert as it wouldn't work

[Johnboy GT]

As Matty said, i had a squint on the tinternet and TD have worked with Wolf to produce a plug and play version called the V4X i think?

John

[pick1]

I know from speaking to mike a TD that there are a few ep's booked in now to have the wolf system fitted and mapped so I suppose only time will tell as to what the newer stand alones bring out in these cars hopefully we will be getting some great results from them to compare with others

[AdamB]

plug and play on a standalone doesnt realy seem like that good an argument as to why one system is better than the other. people running standalone's have more than likely put in hundreds of hours of research into there build along with thousands of pounds so for the sake of a 2 hours to wire in a standalone or what £80 to your mapper? id rather get a newer system with far more features. yea they will hold there price among the few that like to pay out for the ohh my god!! JDM! factor but with more well priced standalone's coming out the pfc will drop in price aswell.

true there tryed and tested but a few years ago a ct9 hybrid was tryed and tested and a td04 wasnt. its people that stray from the tryed and tested ways that push the way forward in the tuning scene. of course we all build our cars to our own preference so it all comes down to personal option what system is best suited but to some one like matt who is realy pushing what a 4e can do the statement tryed and tested doesnt seem right

Uprated injectors, fuel rail, forged internals, ridiculous turbo kits, coil packs ect isnt 90's technology, fair enough the PFC is tried and tested but I bet you would get a better map with the software available on the newer ecu, albeit with more mapping needed but surely the end result would be better?

Said it all right there tbh.

I've spent probably around 20 hours searching, reading, and looking information as to what ecu to buy and i'm still none the wiser, but I do know for a fact it will be a new ecu such as link, haltech, motec etc.

My dad runs a PFC on his 600whp skyline, and yeah fair enough, they do the job, a basic job at that, and in fairness the car doesn't run very well, its very lump, the turbo's start to stall when coming on boost and power delivery is pretty poor. The PFC is ancient, hasn't been updated since it was released, and the only use I can think of for it now is to run a food blender.

Why would you buy 21st century engine components, turbo's, injectors, coils etc and run it on which is probably the most important factor, an engine management system which was created over a decade ago?

Everyones personal opinion but just adding my 2 cents worth.

[turboloon]

i agree withj rubix cube...albeit i'm running a power fc. as well,the cost of getting a new standalone in and mapped is seriuos money compared to a plug and play power f.c.,and frazer shop about bud you don't really need the hand commander although it is handy,if people are building there cars with a limited budget,then i think they're the way to go.

[rorenapier]

Big name standalone on a street car is like using a sledgehammer to hammer in a wee nail.

Launch control and anti lag is what i see people on about all the time on here, ask yourself this do you need it on a street car? Or do you need it becuase you cant drive. Or just because it will look cool down the local car park?

Remember the map is only as good as the squidgy bit behind the monitor ;)

BUT saying the PFC is old etc is utter shite. Still does the job for over 95% of owners cars over the internet.

[AdamB]

Mapping software is almost identical across all ECU's so why would you get a better map? The map is all down to the tuner and the map resolution.(16x16, 20x20, 24x24 etc). Higher the res, the more efficent the map is. gaining a few hp up top and saving a few mpg down low.

Now you say all that stuff isn't 90s tech... what was it the PFC was developed with......oh yeah, APEXi's 1000hp drag car...... must not have had uprated injectors, fuel rail, ridiculous turbo kits, coil packs etc ;)

That was the point I was making on technology, its over kill for a street going starlet. If your going balls out on a track car, then standalone may be better. For a street car and owner who couldn't give a shit about mad additional pointless features...then the PFC is perfect.

Your dads Skyline has clearly got issues.... its nout all to do with the ECU. Unless whomever mapped it was a idiot....thats it.

I've seen big hp 200sx's running PFC's with ZERO issues. Your post is actually laughable.... 21st centrury components LOL seriously.... as my post above says the components fundamentally work the exact same way as they did in the late 90s, they are just more efficient now.....

Injectors pulse based on voltage sent to them for a set time

Coils spark based on a voltage sent to them at a set time

Turbo's give more air

The only argument against going PFC in the starlet world is cost.... A PFC for a 200sx is £400 2nd hand. Compare that to a £1000 Link setup, its a bargin and can do all that is required to push well into 3 times stock power.

I have seen the work involved to get a "full standalone" Link/Motec system in a car.... I know I don't fancy rewiring a car when the PFC will do 99% of stuff I need.

Whats your tuning garage called then lad? What cars have you mapped? What engines have you built?

The simple fact is, you don't even know the car yet your trying to blame it on something else.

The ecu isn't able to run without airflow metres, causing the turbo stall and making it have poor power delivery... THATS IT.

Your right, they may well work the same as they did 50 years ago, but plain and simple, the technology used to control these components is far more advanced than it was 10 or 50 years ago. The software used to calibrate these components is also far better than it used to be. You also said it yourself, the components of today are "more efficient", well if they are more efficient, your going to get a better map, more power, more torque, wider powerband etc etc etc.

For most people it's not even worth paying the £500 for an EMU when you can pick up a DTA or Omex, stretch your budget slightly and you can get a haltech sprint for around the same money, granted it has to be wired in and mapped at a higher cost, if your competent enough you can wire it yourself, its far from hard if you already have a loom brought from the manfuacturer, but still has more features, has a better resolution, better scaling, more load points, it goes on and on.

Why would people pay £1000 for a PFC which lets face it, is older than the EMU, has never been updated unlike the EMU.

To me the PFC is a "basic standalone" it comes with very little features, very little options, no updates. It does the job i'll agree with that, but then it will do the same job as a standlone of half the cost.

Agree to disagree I think, everyone has their own money and their own opinion, recommendation is the only thing you, I or anyone else can give.

[shorty]

Adam is spot on with the point im trying to make. like anything technology improves and due to that the overall result will be better. wether it be a turbo now using billet blades or an ecu with better mapping options or software. for the price they normaly go for you can save money and get a better end result. maybe only margonaly but better non the less. and yea its got features you may not need but id rather pay 200-300less and have functions i dont require than pay full wack and 6months later when i want to do more discover the features or support arnt there. The do work well im not doubting that as it is a proven fact but its expensive old technology FACT! If it was 300-500 then hell yea we would all run them but its not, its near on 800+ wich is a hell of a lot of money for an older ecu system.

[Socks]

I may go dta in ye future. I got my power fc and commander for sub 350quid. So it's a big improvement from emanage. It's soo smooth and runs perfectly. Idles fine. Spools perfect all way to limiter.

I'm happy with it for the minute. Tbh I don't see any need for needing more mapping capability at the moment. It's unreal now.

[AdamB]

Your dad needs an D-Jethro PFC which uses the MAP sensor if he's having issues with an L-Jethro model....

Therefore, not a problem with the ECU per say, its the wrong model, not a problem with the PFC capability... running the right PFC with a Map Sensor would allow the car to run perfectly well ;) The thing that limits your dad's car is the Air Flow meters and whomever told him to use AFM's for that power is an idiot. Would be keen to know who that was.... who is your tuning garage, who is your mapper? ;)

Middlehurst Motorsport built the RB28 and is mapped by Abbey Motorsport. Your right it does need the D-Jetro model PFC, although it is more expensive to buy than the L-Jetro model but I think thats the difference, when you already have a programmable ecu, you can sell it, make some of your money back and put it towards something else.

I think if we were able to pick up PFC's for the price Matt got his for, and the rough price of the PFC's for other markets then yeah it's a viable option no matter how old the ecu is.

I'm not too familier with the PFC's for starlets so i'm not sure, but when people like Matt are near on 300%+ running over stock power, the likes of the stock ignition system, stock wiring (which at best is 13 years old) can't cope with the demand. As far as I'm aware the PFC (starlet fitment) can't run individual coils, also being a plug & play you are guarenteeing on the stock wiring still being upto the job.

Also most of us will want to run multiple maps, which also as far as I'm aware the starlet fitment PFC cannot do. There may well be a whole host of features that a lot of us won't use on a new aftermarket ecu. Theres nothing wrong with wanting to run a street map, then running a race map with anti lag, launch control, nitrous control, increased boost pressure when we go to track days or drag events or whatever you intend on using the car for. So in fact a few features that you find on a new aftermarket ecu will actually be used, not very often but atleast the option is there to.

[micky boy]

In all fairness what car runs well with 600whp? when cams etc get changed they all run lumpy no ecu can sort that out

Also PFC's ftw if they wernt up for the job then why are big powered/drag cars still useing them to this day

And its not always down to what ecu is the best you could buy the best ecu on the market but if you dont have an awesome mapper then whats the point in buying and paying for the best ecu on the market? i remember when people only got about 270/300bhp useing a EMU but now people have used them and the mappers are mapping alot more of them we are seeing more bhp The PFC is more then good enough just because it dont have launch controll etc dont mean its not good enough just by a launch kit job done

Edited September 7, 2012 by micky boy

[fraser280789]

i will go power fc as its what i will be happy with in my project to serious fun and adrenaline rush.my glanza is currently 257 bhp on stock internals at 1.4 bar with a td04.its mighty fun and damn quick off the mark but more is always wanted.my forged 1.5 will be the last major mod and then i will keep the car going like a dream when im happy(i hope)as i would like to buy and own more cars and keep glanza as my toy.im 23 with a beast of a 1.3 so im happy and the only way is a little way up to complete bliss

[Ricky@Race-Tech]

The PFC isn't a great ECU by modern standards to be honest. It lacks features and isn't the most flexible. We already found limits on Sock's car using a power FC.

The problem with most plug and play standalones is they are connected to a 20 year old loom and sensors.

We are currently working on a system what will complete remove the standard wiring loom sensors and obviously ECU. This will obviously cost more than most systems out there, but will allow for a much greater control and you can remove unsightly things like the distributer etc.