WEPR TD04 Kit Vs Racetech TD04 Kit... Opinions Please

[aaddzz123]

Why would you talk to the suppliers for options? Surely they will just say there's is the way product, this thread is for opinions.

lol. I've asked pretty much all of the suppliers on here for advice about something or other in the past and not one of them have been bias or or slated anyone else. I've always just had good honest advice...

As for which kit, I run a WEPR but if I was still ct9 I wouldn't hesitate to try any other brand. They all have top customer service and they're all very friendly to work with. Guess if I was buying a NEW kit I'd just talk to them and see what was best for me.

[Browner]

First of all lads... Everyone relax!

I was not in any way trying to slag off Racetech's work, far from it. I have already spoke with Ricky about some issues by PM prior to this and he agreed to carry out any repair work needed free of charge. his was greatly appreciated but I had already welded it and ground it back down myself.

All I wanted to know was people's opinions and personal experiences on both kits. t is an open forum for people to express their own personal opinion. I just want to choose the best kit possible to suit the needs of my new ep85.

I know I can contact any supplier at any time for advice on their kits but if you are making and selling turbo kits as your everyday business, you are hardly going to send a cash paying customer to another manufacturer... Don't be silly. Of course you will try and talk them onto your own kit.

Anyway as already said all the suppliers have good after sales service and all kits are obviously good in their own way. I just wanted a few people's input on the topic.

Also, is there any comparison out there to the WEPR TD04 Hybrid, the Racetech TD04 with billet wheel or the new Tuning Developments Hybrid TD04? ie: highest BHP rating, spool up times etc?

Edited March 12, 2013 by Browner

[AdamB]

Ricky has posted up the dyno graph of his 350bhp kit, I'm sure there is one of a td04 kit somehwere. Tuning Developments have put up their graph of a td04 vs another well known brand.

I think your best bet would be to look at the power leaderboard and check out what kit everyone is using who is running a td04 turbo.

http://www.s314kba.co.uk/leaderboard/

Edited March 12, 2013 by AdamB

[Danb]

At the moment there is only tuning developments that have posted up a dyno graph of the billet td04 kits that they do (made 299bhp)- i know when i have spoke to mike in the past he says that he has overlaid various dyno graphs of their td04 manifolds and the spool time is quicker compared to other manifolds out there.

I know ricky has posted a partial dyno graph of this 350bhp turbo kits but that uses a garret turbo and not a td04, but results look impressive so far and ive not seen any graphs about his td04 billets he was doing.

WEPR im unsure of their hybrid turbos, ive seen a few of their godzilla kits but none seem to make the power that they claim too - whether thats a mapping issue/engine/turbo im unsure, but not everyone posts results on forums, so i could be wrong.

I have issues with that leaderboard (LOL) as all different dynos, some im predicting that some havent been calibrated/serviced in years, which will result in giving different figures, plus different dynos calculate bhp differently, if you think about a 10% difference in the result - your talking like 25-30bhp.

Thats assuming that the operater hasnt fudged the dyno figures to read higher - i know other tuners have done this in the past to make their kit better than other kits (not in the starlet world). RANT OVER LOL

Edited March 12, 2013 by Danb

[Browner]

^^^ Very true! I seen the TD graph already but I can't seem to find anything else...

[Ricky@Race-Tech]

At the moment there is only tuning developments that have posted up a dyno graph of the billet td04 kits that they do (made 299bhp)- i know when i have spoke to mike in the past he says that he has overlaid various dyno graphs of their td04 manifolds and the spool time is quicker compared to other manifolds out there.

I know ricky has posted a partial dyno graph of this 350bhp turbo kits but that uses a garret turbo and not a td04, but results look impressive so far and ive not seen any graphs about his td04 billets he was doing.

WEPR im unsure of their hybrid turbos, ive seen a few of their godzilla kits but none seem to make the power that they claim too - whether thats a mapping issue/engine/turbo im unsure, but not everyone posts results on forums, so i could be wrong.

I have issues with that leaderboard (LOL) as all different dynos, some im predicting that some havent been calibrated/serviced in years, which will result in giving different figures, plus different dynos calculate bhp differently, if you think about a 10% difference in the result - your talking like 25-30bhp.

Thats assuming that the operater hasnt fudged the dyno figures to read higher - i know other tuners have done this in the past to make their kit better than other kits (not in the starlet world). RANT OVER LOL

All dyno's calculate BHP in exactly the same way.

We ran lots of cars, including Sock's car on the same day around this time last year. His car was 343IIRC then, it made within 1 hp what it had made before. All of the other cars made within 2-3hp what they had made on various other dynos.

We will have graphs of the billet TDO4's in the next couple of weeks.

We are in sheffield, and always have manifolds etc around, if anybody wants to check one before they buy. Of course spool on a dyno is easy to "cheat" and you can easily make competitors products spool up much slower. This is why there isn't any point us publishing back to back results. What I will say is i'm 100% confident in our manifolds, a quick look at the collector area and the inside i'm sure most would agree.

[Rob H@RCH Engineering]

You need to have one like the one you made for mr Veall's drag civic for every one to see!lol

[funny onion]

Wepr... Had ext wastegate ct9 and td04 setup. Very happy with both setups.

Tuning developments kits look awesome too

[Danb]

All dyno's calculate BHP in exactly the same way.

Thats incorrect ricky.

But anyway back to original discussion.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Danb

[Ricky@Race-Tech]

No it isn't, physic's dictates this.

If your on about calculating flywheel HP that's a different thing, and yes, dyno's have different methods. We can do a coast-down wheel loss on our dyno. Or simply multiply the wheel power by a percentage.

Regards

Ricky

Thats incorrect ricky.

But anyway back to original discussion.

[Danb]

No it isn't, physic's dictates this.

If your on about calculating flywheel HP that's a different thing, and yes, dyno's have different methods. We can do a coast-down wheel loss on our dyno. Or simply multiply the wheel power by a percentage.

Regards

Ricky

Hub dynos (which measure at wheels/hub) are different to say a traditional chassis dyno and will give you different results at the wheels/hubs even dynopack have confirmed this!

Agreed with flywheel calculation......but thats what 99.9% of owners talk in and use in a willy waving contest.

Edited March 13, 2013 by Danb

[Rob H@RCH Engineering]

Most roller dynos measure axle torque and calculate horse power (remember they carnt directly mesure engine power before drive train losses hence whp being most accurate as this is what is directly measured!) were as dyno jet for example measures horse power and calculates torque.

Most roller dynos know the mass of the roller, circumference of the roller and the moment of inertia they look at the rate the drum is accelerated and knowing this work out the applied force to the roller (axle torque) then this is devided by over all drive ratio which gives engine torque after drive train losses, horse power is then worked out from this (hp=torque x rpm / 5252) this is also why hp an torque lines will ALWAYS cross at 5252rpm on force scaled graphs Unless funny business has been going on like misleading operator fudging the numbers to make their work look better.

Dynapack is just a hydraulic pump head with a digital transducer (pressure sensor) that directly measure axle torque. This is arguably the most accurate method as its not calculating the torque it's measureing it.

Some roller dynos with low inertia have trouble using the normal roller method so they control the ramp rate and use a strain gauge on the bottom of the assemble to measure tortuously forces on the eddy brake assembly.

There are also some dynos out there that struggle to give consistent readings, which is why they're so cheap. Not mentioning any makes ;)

Hope this has been an interesting insight into the theory of operation of various dynos excluding standardisation algorithms for weather etc.

Info courtesy of Will @ RDT ..... Who's tuned on and studied the operation of almost every dyno manufacturer out there and even developed additional control systems for dynos like wireless remotes for dyno jet America.

[funny onion]

Most roller dynos measure axle torque and calculate horse power (remember they carnt directly mesure engine power before drive train losses hence whp being most accurate as this is what is directly measured!) were as dyno jet for example measures horse power and calculates torque.

Most roller dynos know the mass of the roller, circumference of the roller and the moment of inertia they look at the rate the drum is accelerated and knowing this work out the applied force to the roller (axle torque) then this is devided by over all drive ratio which gives engine torque after drive train losses, horse power is then worked out from this (hp=torque x rpm / 5252) this is also why hp an torque lines will ALWAYS cross at 5252rpm on force scaled graphs Unless funny business has been going on like misleading operator fudging the numbers to make their work look better.

Dynapack is just a hydraulic pump head with a digital transducer (pressure sensor) that directly measure axle torque. This is arguably the most accurate method as its not calculating the torque it's measureing it.

Some roller dynos with low inertia have trouble using the normal roller method so they control the ramp rate and use a strain gauge on the bottom of the assemble to measure tortuously forces on the eddy brake assembly.

There are also some dynos out there that struggle to give consistent readings, which is why they're so cheap. Not mentioning any makes ;)

Hope this has been an interesting insight into the theory of operation of various dynos excluding standardisation algorithms for weather etc.

Info courtesy of Will @ RDT ..... Who's tuned on and studied the operation of almost every dyno manufacturer out there and even developed additional control systems for dynos like wireless remotes for dyno jet America.

Nice read

[Flaminsam]

Hmm back on subject there are now other companys too that make td04 kits. Tuning developments have their own kits which are proving to be a good investment. Also what about zisco kits? I've not heared any one mention anything about these kits. Are they also a possible contender for "best td04 manifold"

[Ricky@Race-Tech]

Hub dynos (which measure at wheels/hub) are different to say a traditional chassis dyno and will give you different results at the wheels/hubs even dynopack have confirmed this!

Agreed with flywheel calculation......but thats what 99.9% of owners talk in and use in a willy waving contest.

Coast down or percentage we see similar figures. So we just use percentage as do Dyno Dynamics, anyway, this is well off topic now.

All dyno's use the same equation to get the power though. I'm not saying all read the same. But they should.

[DevonGT]

Hmm back on subject there are now other companys too that make td04 kits. Tuning developments have their own kits which are proving to be a good investment. Also what about zisco kits? I've not heared any one mention anything about these kits. Are they also a possible contender for "best td04 manifold"

Zisco products would certainly be worth a look.

[Bean]

ive had a couple of zisco kits and a couple of wepr kits and i think the wepr stuff that ive had atleast, is alot better than the zisco ones. the welds are ALOT neater on the wepr ones. im not saying im an expert on welding but just from looking inside the manifold i had a zisco one with a fair lump of weld very near to the flange which really didnt look good, also the welds on the runners looks alot better on my wepr kit. also the collector looks excellent on my current wepr manifold.

a big thing with the manifolds is also the price. you could make the best manifolds in the world for a starlet but if it costs loads more than others available it wont sell or very few will sell atleast. ive always found the wepr stuff very well priced. especially when sacha has his sale

ive not long had a tig welder my self and ive been making a 2.5" stainless exhaust for my civic. i bought the 316 pipe and a few bends and its nearly finished but the amount of hours ive got in it already is loads! i can imagine a manifold even though its a small piece to fabricate would take even longer!

Edited March 13, 2013 by Bean

[iamlegend]

ive had a couple of zisco kits and a couple of wepr kits and i think the wepr stuff that ive had atleast, is alot better than the zisco ones. the welds are ALOT neater on the wepr ones. im not saying im an expert on welding but just from looking inside the manifold i had a zisco one with a fair lump of weld very near to the flange which really didnt look good, also the welds on the runners looks alot better on my wepr kit. also the collector looks excellent on my current wepr manifold.

a big thing with the manifolds is also the price. you could make the best manifolds in the world for a starlet but if it costs loads more than others available it wont sell or very few will sell atleast. ive always found the wepr stuff very well priced. especially when sacha has his sale

ive not long had a tig welder my self and ive been making a 2.5" stainless exhaust for my civic. i bought the 316 pipe and a few bends and its nearly finished but the amount of hours ive got in it already is loads! i can imagine a manifold even though its a small piece to fabricate would take even longer!

this... had zisco and the quality seemed poor tbh.. I mean its still going and hasnt cracked so...

went for wepr this time looks lovley

[TurboTobz]

Td will look after you, they're hybrid kits are giving unreal power and torque.

Can't comment on race tech but they're work does look like the most well made stuff I've seen and if I had the money i have no doubts id go there for a kit.