Petition to stop massacre in Palestine

[Phil]

And to be honest I reakon if the uk did get involves it would be on Israelis side

Yup where they arent really needed.

Phil

[seth]

I always check Einstein quotes since everyone makes them up. The source of the quote I posted is in the image. I had first read about the intended speech in Einstein: The Life and Times, by Ronald W. Clark.

It is possible to kill someone without being fueled by anger. For example, if someone were to attack my family and the only way to stop them was to use so much force that it killed them, I would not hesitate to kill them. Surely we can admit this might happen on a much larger scale sometimes with nations. It IS possible to be in the right and also be killing people. Just pointing that out. Have whatever opinion you want of the situation, just pointing out that principle fact.

[Amjad]

trade sanctions wont stop the money that props up the terrorists running Gaza though.

20million a month from iran and other anti semitic arab countries.

Since random propaganda pictures were posted above heres is alittle from the other viewpoint.

Mind you, Nelson Madela/Gandhi/Einstien had alot more to say about Israel.

i largely agree with Gandhi take on it (in the fuller sense not that isolated snippet.

Phil

Phil, regarding your comment on Hamas; it is the democratically elected governing body in the Gaza strip. Naturally, a pro-zionist state will label anyone that dare oppose the apartheid mess that is Israel.

I've taken the following from an extended article of which you can read in the link below, but again in reply to the "terrorist" comment:

Unlike terrorism which is universally deemed as criminal (no such thing as “legal terrorism”), other forms of political violence are not only acceptable, but are fully legal. This obviously includes military acts of self-defense (i.e. the right to resist an aggressor, defend ones territorial integrity, et cetera) as well as UN Security Council sanctioned Chapter VII actions (the war making powers of the UNSC, as employed in South Korea or in Bosnia-Herzegovina). However, among these legal forms of violence there is also the right to use force in the struggle for “liberation from colonial and foreign domination”. To quote United Nations General Assembly Resolution A/RES/33/24 of 29 November 1978:

“2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, particularly armed struggle;” (3)

This justification for legitimate armed resistance has been specifically applied to the Palestinian struggle repeatedly. To quote General Assembly Resolution A/RES/3246 (XXIX) of 29 November 1974:

3. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the peoples’ struggle for liberation form colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation by all available means, including armed struggle; …

7. Strongly condemns all Governments which do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of peoples under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people; (4)

..as a part of Israel’s propaganda campaign against the Palestinian people and their legitimate cause, Israel absolutely refuses to differentiate between Palestinian terrorism and Palestinian legitimate armed resistance. This has been graphically illustrated by the reporting on the successful Palestinian attacks on the Israeli military targets in the Gaza Strip. In these particular instances there was a Palestinian attack on a fully armed military transport in the process of actively conducting a military operation manned exclusively by Israeli uniformed soldiers. In absolutely no conceivable respect can this be considered any sort of “terrorist” attack, quite the contrary; this is exactly the kind of Palestinian resistance action that is fully legal and fully justified. This failure to differentiate - to recognize the Palestinian people’s legitimate right to resist the occupation - renders most Israeli reports on “terrorism” extremely misleading because they intentionally and maliciously combine acts of legitimate armed resistance..

http://electronicintifada.net/content/palestine-legitimate-armed-resistance-vs-terrorism/5084

The United States and Israel have committed more acts of terrorism, and violated more international agreements than the Hamas ever will. There is little attempt to understand, analyze or critique Hamas’ military strategy; it's all lumped together as “terrorism.” This is used to describe armed resistance of all kinds, never once using it to describe Israeli massacres and war crimes.

United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict, better known as the Goldstone report, determined that “The Israeli military conception of what was necessary in a future war with Hamas seems to have been developed from at least the time of the 2006 conflict in southern Lebanon. It finds its origin in a military doctrine that views disproportionate destruction and creating maximum disruption in the lives of many people as a legitimate means to achieve military and political goals.” The report adds, “Statements by political and military leaders prior to and during the military operations in Gaza leave little doubt that disproportionate destruction and violence against civilians were part of a deliberate policy.” That's not terrorism?

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

And in response to that image created by David Horowitz.. I'll briefly mention that this editor in chief and owner of FrontPage Magazine has engaged in continuous campaigns against Muslims and African Americans. Ten years ago Horowitz notoriously ran ads in college newspapers across the country saying that black people should be grateful that their ancestors were slaves in America and in fact owed America a debt for slavery.

This is the sort of information this man puts out:

Horowitz writes, "On March 16, 2003 an Israeli bulldozer set to work removing shrubs in the Gaza Strip town of Rafah. These shrubs obscured the tunnels terrorists were using to smuggle weapons from Egypt to the West Bank. As Rachel Corrie knelt in front of the terrorists’ supply lines, the bulldozer’s driver...ran over her." What actually happened? "Along with several other people, Rachel sat down in front of a house that was targeted for demolition by the Israeli army--one of thousands of Palestinian homes in Gaza and the West Bank destroyed by the Israeli occupiers just in the past two years. Witnesses say the bulldozer’s driver could clearly see Rachel, who wore a fluorescent jacket and was speaking into a bullhorn. But the bulldozer continued forward, pulling Rachel under--then it reversed and drove over her again." (Sources: "Campus Support for Terrorism," edited by Horowitz and Johnson, 2004, Revolutionary Worker #1201, June 1, 2003.

And back to the image in question..

First, there was a historical Palestine. They even had a currency called the Palestine pound, which was divided into a thousand mils, and said the word “Palestine” in big bold letters in English, Arabic, and Hebrew. Also, I’d like to remind folks that in his famous letter to Baron Rothschild, Balfour referred to the land he was gifting the future state of Israel as Palestine.

Second, Palestinians are indigenous and they are not just vague Arabs. If you believe the theory that the Jews were the original inhabitants of the Holy Land that does not mean that today’s Palestinian Christians and Muslims are not their descendants. Jesus was born in Bethlehem. I’m guessing he picked up some followers. Team “there are no Palestinians” seem to be in denial of the fact that there is a little thing called converting.

What’s more, even if Palestine never existed—which it did—that doesn’t mean that Palestinians don’t exist. People can choose to identify however they please and millions have chosen to identify as Palestinian. You do not need to have a country to identify in a certain way. Croatians in Yugoslavia did not identify as Yugoslavians prior to getting their own country. They identified as Croatian. There is no country called “Communististan” but there are still Communists and even though there is technically no Palestine, there are still Palestinians.

Get over the name. In every debate that dismisses Palestinians’ right to equality on the grounds that they never had a country, the fact that these people do physically exist and are being oppressed is ignored. Call them Native Israelis or “Popcorn People” for all I care, they have been living there a very long time and they are not going anywhere.

Amjad

[Phil]

Phil, regarding your comment on Hamas; it is the democratically elected governing body in the Gaza strip. Naturally, a pro-zionist state will label anyone that dare oppose the apartheid mess that is Israel.

I've taken the following from an extended article of which you can read in the link below, but again in reply to the "terrorist" comment:

Unlike terrorism which is universally deemed as criminal (no such thing as “legal terrorism”), other forms of political violence are not only acceptable, but are fully legal. This obviously includes military acts of self-defense (i.e. the right to resist an aggressor, defend ones territorial integrity, et cetera) as well as UN Security Council sanctioned Chapter VII actions (the war making powers of the UNSC, as employed in South Korea or in Bosnia-Herzegovina). However, among these legal forms of violence there is also the right to use force in the struggle for “liberation from colonial and foreign domination”. To quote United Nations General Assembly Resolution A/RES/33/24 of 29 November 1978:

“2. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the struggle of peoples for independence, territorial integrity, national unity and liberation from colonial and foreign domination and foreign occupation by all available means, particularly armed struggle;” (3)

This justification for legitimate armed resistance has been specifically applied to the Palestinian struggle repeatedly. To quote General Assembly Resolution A/RES/3246 (XXIX) of 29 November 1974:

3. Reaffirms the legitimacy of the peoples’ struggle for liberation form colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation by all available means, including armed struggle; …

7. Strongly condemns all Governments which do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of peoples under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people; (4)

..as a part of Israel’s propaganda campaign against the Palestinian people and their legitimate cause, Israel absolutely refuses to differentiate between Palestinian terrorism and Palestinian legitimate armed resistance. This has been graphically illustrated by the reporting on the successful Palestinian attacks on the Israeli military targets in the Gaza Strip. In these particular instances there was a Palestinian attack on a fully armed military transport in the process of actively conducting a military operation manned exclusively by Israeli uniformed soldiers. In absolutely no conceivable respect can this be considered any sort of “terrorist” attack, quite the contrary; this is exactly the kind of Palestinian resistance action that is fully legal and fully justified. This failure to differentiate - to recognize the Palestinian people’s legitimate right to resist the occupation - renders most Israeli reports on “terrorism” extremely misleading because they intentionally and maliciously combine acts of legitimate armed resistance..

http://electronicintifada.net/content/palestine-legitimate-armed-resistance-vs-terrorism/5084

The United States and Israel have committed more acts of terrorism, and violated more international agreements than the Hamas ever will. There is little attempt to understand, analyze or critique Hamas’ military strategy; it's all lumped together as “terrorism.” This is used to describe armed resistance of all kinds, never once using it to describe Israeli massacres and war crimes.

United Nations Fact Finding Mission on the Gaza Conflict, better known as the Goldstone report, determined that “The Israeli military conception of what was necessary in a future war with Hamas seems to have been developed from at least the time of the 2006 conflict in southern Lebanon. It finds its origin in a military doctrine that views disproportionate destruction and creating maximum disruption in the lives of many people as a legitimate means to achieve military and political goals.” The report adds, “Statements by political and military leaders prior to and during the military operations in Gaza leave little doubt that disproportionate destruction and violence against civilians were part of a deliberate policy.” That's not terrorism?

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

And in response to that image created by David Horowitz.. I'll briefly mention that this editor in chief and owner of FrontPage Magazine has engaged in continuous campaigns against Muslims and African Americans. Ten years ago Horowitz notoriously ran ads in college newspapers across the country saying that black people should be grateful that their ancestors were slaves in America and in fact owed America a debt for slavery.

This is the sort of information this man puts out:

Horowitz writes, "On March 16, 2003 an Israeli bulldozer set to work removing shrubs in the Gaza Strip town of Rafah. These shrubs obscured the tunnels terrorists were using to smuggle weapons from Egypt to the West Bank. As Rachel Corrie knelt in front of the terrorists’ supply lines, the bulldozer’s driver...ran over her." What actually happened? "Along with several other people, Rachel sat down in front of a house that was targeted for demolition by the Israeli army--one of thousands of Palestinian homes in Gaza and the West Bank destroyed by the Israeli occupiers just in the past two years. Witnesses say the bulldozer’s driver could clearly see Rachel, who wore a fluorescent jacket and was speaking into a bullhorn. But the bulldozer continued forward, pulling Rachel under--then it reversed and drove over her again." (Sources: "Campus Support for Terrorism," edited by Horowitz and Johnson, 2004, Revolutionary Worker #1201, June 1, 2003.

And back to the image in question..

First, there was a historical Palestine. They even had a currency called the Palestine pound, which was divided into a thousand mils, and said the word “Palestine” in big bold letters in English, Arabic, and Hebrew. Also, I’d like to remind folks that in his famous letter to Baron Rothschild, Balfour referred to the land he was gifting the future state of Israel as Palestine.

Second, Palestinians are indigenous and they are not just vague Arabs. If you believe the theory that the Jews were the original inhabitants of the Holy Land that does not mean that today’s Palestinian Christians and Muslims are not their descendants. Jesus was born in Bethlehem. I’m guessing he picked up some followers. Team “there are no Palestinians” seem to be in denial of the fact that there is a little thing called converting.

What’s more, even if Palestine never existed—which it did—that doesn’t mean that Palestinians don’t exist. People can choose to identify however they please and millions have chosen to identify as Palestinian. You do not need to have a country to identify in a certain way. Croatians in Yugoslavia did not identify as Yugoslavians prior to getting their own country. They identified as Croatian. There is no country called “Communististan” but there are still Communists and even though there is technically no Palestine, there are still Palestinians.

Get over the name. In every debate that dismisses Palestinians’ right to equality on the grounds that they never had a country, the fact that these people do physically exist and are being oppressed is ignored. Call them Native Israelis or “Popcorn People” for all I care, they have been living there a very long time and they are not going anywhere.

Amjad

So basically, they are only terrorists when they do terrorists acts.

the rest of the time they involved in a legitimate war.

no problem accepting that terrorists arent involved in terrorism 24/7.

So, i help people during the day do usual things and generous acts, and then rape people at night.

next day am i not a rapist even whilst im doing something legitimate like being generous or helpful?

i dont think so.

war = fighting an army as an army.

terrorism = firing rockets

Hamas involved in both = terrorists.

people tend to concentrate on the worst of most dangerous element of others.

a charity working murderer? murderer.

in my country a man in full uniform(IRA) shoots a off duty soldier, he claims its an act of war.

True story, so im aware of this argument.

So in summary you think palestinians have the right to fight.

do you believe they have the right to terrorism? aimless missiles fired at israel?

if they want to fight ive no problem with that, fire away.

if they want Israel to play cowboys and indians on the border regions no problem.

but if they want to fire rockets in Israel that may kill civilians? then dont complain about the serious beat down.

if they want to use civilians as human shields? why complain when they die?

I dont believe that the Jews where the original inhabitants of the Holyland, in the history of people id say Canaanities of shemites.

But they were clearly there a long time, long enough to have at least equal rights to anyone else.

the modern world is based on who won what most recently.

Land won in wars that wouldnt be agreeable today no doubt.

So in summary,

• nomatter what else a terrorist get up to he is a terrorist.
• If they want to fight a ground war or whatever, agree to some sort of conflict boundaries and have at it, please get on with it.
• if they want to fire missiles indiscriminately, then tough luck with the disproportionate response.
• Historical rights to the land, equal at worst.
• Current split of land, majority to strongest nation or tongue, see the world for details.

Phil

Edited July 24, 2014 by Philm