rotas

[StarletRick]

these, are 77 quid at the moment. surely they cant be better than some WONDERFUL rotas?

[Liam_D]

Dude, this Rota hating is getting a bit boring now to be honest.

You hate Rotas and most of us already know, so why keep posting??

[StarletRick]

i take it you own some rotas then Liam?

[200sx-Starlet-Jay]

in my onest opinion, i dont like them sets of wheels. not sayin it to try and outrage the beast within like, but i genuinly dont like them.

CBA now cyainabitBOP

[keirz]

no liam doesnt own rotas

[riko666]

I can't comment on a subjective basis as I've never owned a set, but I can say this - no-one, ever, will be able to tell the quality of construction by sight alone, you'll need to do ultrasonic scans, xrays and finite element analysis to evaluate the quality of the metal construction of the wheels. Seeing as the Rotas "have been known" to fail, completely catastrophically, and apparently when not too stressed, I'm pretty sure most people would be shocked by the evidence provided if the following tests had been conducted.

That's not to say they don't "appear" to look well made - painting/colour scheme of a wheel has pretty much nothing to do with the quality of construction....at all. I hate them, cause they're lousy copies made in the Philippines...it's not to say they're ugly, they're copies of popular designs. But they're just that in the end....copies. Would you buy counterfeit clothes for example?

[Bourkey]

Well i didn't expect this argument to come up again like this.

I've done some research on the company and the wheels as i could not write this otherwise as i haven't ever owned a set therefore i've never had any problems.

From what i have read from their own site and many other sites, Rota make 50,000 + wheels a month. They vary in design but are familiar as they are copies of well known (and very popular) JDM wheels. They are very nice looking wheels and look the part very well.

Even though they are visually very nice designs there is clearly some manufacturing or quality control problems with Rota, as you have all seen. The pictures speak for themselves really. A wheel should never completely break like that. It could easily kill someone and isn't very good publicity. I have read of around 50+ cases on the web regarding this type of failure and they are just the ones i have found. But a very large percentage of these is in some form of motorsport where the wheel is put under a lot of stress. And it seems to be the designs with a thinner more delicate set of spokes.

I think all the pictures should be sent to Rota to look at as they may take notice of what is happening before someone gets hurt.

I personally would not get the wheels as i wouldn't want to take the risk (even though they produce 50,000 a month and only a few dozen have failed) as it could happen to any of their wheels. I wouldn't poke at people who have them though as they may have a perfectly good set. You hear all the time of people having them for years with no problems.

So PLEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE stop this daft banter on this subject.

PS. Rick you have a PM regarding those red lipped volks!!!!

[Liam_D]

As Keirz has said no i dont own a set of Rotas.

[Sparky]

This should have been closed from the start

I will keep denying it until that happens to my wheels

They have had a punishing and even more so with the D2's and terrible roads around here, and the only thing wrong with them is the lip of the wheels is loosing its chrome

I am happy with them as are every other owner I know of

Until Wedsports make those Carbons rims in 15s then I am keeping my Rota's

[Glanza_Ragger]

God damn i love the Rota threads..

I have Rotas... Rich bought my old jdm rims...The ones that look like mini compomotives...

Well any way,

Ive owned my rotas for 3 years now, and in that 3 years, i have never had any buckles,splits,cracks,dings,bends,pops,twists etc

And for the cash, there very good light weight wheels.I wouldnt change them for anything...And , i might even buy another set for when i get my respray 'because i <3 them that much..No there not jdm, yes there replicas of spoons, no they dont bend... I lovez 'em

Stick youre Volks up youre shitnugget encrusted poopholes

*hides from the hordes of people wanting to kill me*

[riko666]

to be fair, I really doubt you'd use them to the point of reaching such levels of stress anyway

Peoplez, what the anti-Rota people are trying to convey here is...Rotas, are a cheap, mass produced wheel, and not say every cheap, mass produced wheel will prove to be so utterly and completely useless in strength, but fact of the matter is - being in a pretty much third world environment, and churning out thousands' of cheap wheels per month, you're not going to use the strongest methods of construction, you're going to find the cheapest and quickest method of construction, fact.

There is quality control, but as mentioned, this is the Philippines, not a country reknowned for a bustling Industrial movement...you're not going to get anything like the sort of Quality Control as in Japan or European companies. However, this does not mean EVERY Rota wheel is going to smash....but the worrying thing is that this has happened, several times...and I'm sorry, but no-one in their right mind is going to design a wheel that SHEARS off the center portion of the wheel. That would kill you!!! Most quality wheels I've seen, forged or not, Bend when hit by a sudden impact, or crack....not SHEAR!!

There is something seriously wrong if you shear a material in such a manner - whether it be the construction method (cheap castings for quick and cheap production) or the materials (lesser grade of aluminium alloy, cheaper), all wheels are designed to break in a certain manner that would be safest if such an incident were to happen, and shearing off is not one of those. You Rota users that are very proud, just think of it - how does a Company, based in a 3rd world environment (so, beyond cheap labour etc...) manage to sell Light (which are typically expensive due to expensive construction methods) wheels at such a cheap price? Are they really a bargain? Are they really making a loss for your gain? No. If it's anything I've learnt on my first couple of weeks in University - every sort of industry, will try their best to Reduce production costs, all the time. The good companies will be the ones that streamline costs but not at the cost of Quality Assurance, rather through optimising production efficiency and streamlining running costs i.e. factors that would provide small but reasonable costs in the total price of construction, the questionnable companies, will go to the extent of using cheaper methods of construction, and lesser materials, but suitable for "typical needs" as it's a MUCH cheaper option overall, and requires much less development work (i.e. money that could go towards making more and more wheels!).

I stand by - if you carry out a finite element analysis scan/xray/ultrasonic/magnaflux a typical Rota wheel (mind you, they could be rough batches, but a Company like Volk would identify anomalies in a wheels structure, and DESTROY the wheel), you will find a casting that will contain cracks, air pockets, irregularities in consistency, and so on...and I reckon the only way they've reduced weight, is by making the wheel Thinner!! All of you guys claiming "my Rota's are good quality", what are you basing this on, the paint work? The appearance? Pretty much anything that doesn't have anything to do with the construction of the wheel (remember, surface finishes are very easy to apply, doesn't take much to make something look pretty) or do you all have Xray eyes and can actually see through the metal?? Castings are durable, but only when they are of the right dimensions - a cast metal piece is very brittle (so would more likely shatter in an impact) but very strong at the same time (will take a sizeable impact), a forging on the other hand, is much more resiliant to cracking/shattering, but would bend easier. As a result, that's why typical Quality produced wheels tend to just bend or when bent to a huge degree, start to crack in an impact - cue Gaz's Sparco Racing Crimson after hitting a stone I think it was, any evidence of a wheel shearing off the center section?? No, cause that is a huge design flaw! That's why you'll see cast wheels produced by the likes of OZ Racing, BBS etc...are actually Quite heavy! But they get around this....by making two or 3 piece wheels, where they forge the center section and cast the hoop for strength!

* However, checking on the website itself, I was stunned to read of the construction methods, posted on the website - Low Pressure & Gravity Die casting...I'm sorry, they are casting wheels the same way the make engine blocks?!?! They cast wheels the same way as a component that never ever deals with impact?!!?!? Oh...oh seriously....dear god! Low Pressure & Gravity Die casting (most widely used...i.e. OEM wheels, not Lightweight wheels...) create a dubious type of casting for a wheel. They create a very expansive molecular structure (read, less specific strength i.e. strength per unit density) with high chances of casting flaws if not carried out properly (hello hello...). I also noticed something worrying with some of the pictures, and reading the forum threads....some people claim that "oh yes, the wheels broke cause they were on a track, and the car generated too much stress for the wheels etc...". Well...have you realised how most of the tyres on said wheels....are Street radials? I.e. not slicks??? How in god's world is a Street radial going to generate the amount of stress required to SHEAR metal?!!? Some of the threads, admittedly, do claim that the cars were tracked at the time of wheel failure...but I have a theory based on one of the pictures I saw (and has now disappeared) of a Honda CRX with Red Copies of the Volk CE28n's - the center section sheared right off, but the remaining bits on the wheel seem to have distorted somewhat, twisted if you will. I'm thinking, the wheels could be made out of a cheap aluminium alloy which if perhaps, combined with the heat given off by the brakes during heavy braking, actually causes the wheel to lose it's strength, and seeing as aluminium is not a very ductile material (doesn't stretch much), the metal will just fail catastrophically, as demonstrated by the pictures posted. That's not going to help is it?Trying to stop and your wheel shears off...

* From this, I believe that perhaps, together with the construction method detailed above, Rota may use a cheaper Aluminium alloy, i.e. one that uses much less alloy and much more aluminium - most Aluminium alloy wheels, forged or not, tend to incorporate expensive elements like Magnesium and the such, you will use alloys to tailor weight, strength, heat resistance, stiffness etc...it's not a case of "Aluminium, done". But hey, I'm only saying this for an educated assumption...I don't actually know what alloys Rota uses, but going on the fact that Rota manages to manufacture CAST Alloy wheels, for so cheap, and quite light, with "presumably" optimum strength (which in some cases is as far as from the truth as possible)....well, there must be a reason as to how they do it. There must be a reason why Rota is based in the Philippines too...cheap labour will ultimately help to reduce costs.

Sorry for this rant, but people have to stop being narrowminded and dismiss facts because "their personal opinion is that it's good"...well, you're not going to be able to make an appropriate assumption of a wheels construction method efficiency as you don't know what goes behind the construction, how it is achieved with the qualities evident, and how flaw free a construction is, you're just basing your assumption on the basis of looks - and, well....Molecular structures run beyond skin deep . This is not to say, one day, all of you Rota users will have your wheels shear off, not at all!! But maybe, some of you, hit a rock hard, go tracking on Slick tyres, etc...your wheel is not going to give you a safety net and bend or deform...no....it'll sheer, leaving at complete loss of control of that wheel.

I'm only trying to be objective here - i.e. give a reasoned response, rather than an opinionated response. All I know from my degree, and studying up on the Automotive field forever, is that wheels are designed different ways, by different people, to achieve different results...but never, is a wheel designed to shear, like a few Rota's have been...

Edit: * = new bit

[riko666]

shizer, that's an essay!! ^^^^ sorry guys

[WallaceGlanza]

Can't argue with that riko, point well made. I'm glad I never bought rota's when I wanted them 2 years back.

[StarletRick]

perfect...

[riko666]

just adding to the rant, I've made some Startling discoveries...

edit - done

[Glanza_Ragger]

That was quite a hardcore comment Riko, my point is that, ive trackday'ed the starbo before with the rotas on... And there still in one piece.

Obviously it isnt a pure track/drag car so i wouldnt be pushing the wheels to there limits day in,day out.

If i WAS to visit the track more frequently, i would opt for a compomotive

You people are just finding images of damaged Rota's.

Wheres all the images of the damaged other brands?

Ive seen a Volk te37 with a huge fracture mark in one of the spokes in person, after a couple of hours worth of track abuse.

Obviously all companys will have bad batches, but what im getting at, is theres generally alot of haters out there because there not jdm.

Im not saying they havent made the odd shite batch and not picked up on them before releasing them..Because its obvious they have.

I love a juicy thread keep the banter comming

[riko666]

I couldn't care less if they're JDM or not...I love BBS wheels for example I just don't like them cause all they do is knock-offs.

Manufacturers like Volk, for a fact, will destroy a wheel if it is found to have a manufacturing defect or flaw along the assembly line, they will NOT let it go through on the assembly line! It will be melted down, and start from the beginning. I've seen a lot of wheels, OEM, Aftermarket, Motorsport - get into accidents and get damaged, but I have NEVER, EVER....seen a wheel shear from the center.

If it shears, regardless, this implies that the torque running at the wheels combined with the grip of the tyres/road surface, overloaded the strength of the alloys structure at the weakest point of the wheel (which is typically why you'll see the spokes break at the same points)...so...these wheels...didn't break on impact....they broke during acceleration or braking....srsly...wtf?!?!?! Not to say I know more than anyone, but through university and research, you can put scenarios like this to practice...and yet again, A wheel that SHEARS like some Rota's have done, is a wheel that has been improperly designed/constructed. There is no other way about it. Never mind Volks with fractures - at least they fracture, bend, dissipate the energy of an impact...it's what a wheel is supposed to do, not shear...

[ecksjay]

This is awesome. everything i've wanted to say, has been said. by enrico mainly - and mate, i couldnt read that monstrous post, and thats from someone who posts in a similar fashion. it scared me, i'm never gonna read it. its too special.

Also ragger, i've seen volks with cracks, dents, knocks and bumps, but i have never seen one shear off at the hub. their quality control is too good for that.

Rota's are cheap shite, thats been proven, end of story.

I never had a set of rota's on any of my cars, and i would never dream of it. My current set of Kakimoto's (made under instruction of Kakimoto by SSR, who make wheels just as capable as the likes of Rays, Enkei etc) cost me a monstrous.....£200. 17x9's, ET22, 3-piece split rims, taken freshly off an R32 GTR Skyline.

(shit pic i appreciate, but best one i have of the wheels...when clean....)

200 quid. I'd struggle to buy a set of rota's for double that (if i wanted), yet, i know which i'd rather have.... ;)

A very useful point has been proven here.

I remember the thread when myself and rick got SLAUGHTERED for even saying a negative thing about rota's, yet, this proves we are right. as always.

[StarletRick]

I remember the thread when myself and rick got SLAUGHTERED for even saying a negative thing about rota's, yet, this proves we are right. as always.

^^

[Nanglebadger]

riko man, everything u have said, from a scientific point of view, makes total sense, combined effects of grip of tire and torque from acceleration will put pressure on the inner section of the wheel, which if it is not strong enough, will simply snap. cant fault u there at all, my chosen science area of expertise admittedly is not physics but geography, but to a scientific mind wot u have said makes total sense!

i wanted auto x's for a LONG time, i think they're awesome lookin, but they're over £400

i have sourced a set of Volks for....£170

thats right £170!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! u cant beat that with a big stick!!!!!!! even a refurb of £170 and shipping to my gaff will still be under £400! i love it!

Keep this debate SCIENTIFIC and NOT opinionated please guys and it can remain open! no slaggin other people off or puttin rota owners down, or it will be closed, if u have a valid point to make please feel free to make it with the necessary backup and this can remain open.

Phil.

[riko666]

Well said - and thanks Rick, Harry and Phil, I try to be as objective as possible, because in that sense no-one is going to argue with fact if they cannot prove otherwise - I study materials and construction methods as one of my modules of my degree, and I've studied about cars, srsly, since I could read. I haven't seen previous threads of this nature, but Harrison and Rick, for a fact, know a lot more about cars and perhaps the Starlet in particular than almost everyone on this forum...but perhaps they just got pummelled cause people thought it was "their opinion"

And Phil, regarding the center section - well true, the Stress would be concentrated on the hub of the wheel, but regardless, no-one designs them to "Snap" from the center - it's preposterous, it's potentially lethal! Wheels will generically bend, crack, fracture etc....but NEVER, EVER (and I mean, extremely rare even in Topfuel dragsters) have I seen a wheel that just....SHEARS!! It just startles me to the core - how can acceleration, cause a wheel to snap?! On street radials?? It's scary to think - the force of acceleration PALES to that of cornering, impact of a hard object etc...and it's snapping from acceleration/braking. I reckon people just get Rotas cause a) they're too lazy to get the real thing, ;) it pretty much looks like the real thing but is much cheaper than the real wheel would be brand new...and I suppose c) they're lightweight, so they can pretend it's the real reason they're getting said wheels. That's opinionated, and people will obviously try to prove me wrong on it.

No-one will get them cause they're known to be robust, they're high-tech and built with advanced techniques to achieve low weight and strength...no, it's going to be the above.

[StarletRick]

youve said everything well enough now riko, to the point where i bet this thread dies. because all the pro-rota people will be too scared to post. well done sir, you get a gold tc star.

[riko666]

yay! Thank joo master Tc, very honoured *sniff*

[Sparky]

*yawn is this thread still going* ;)

[StarletRick]

it is now you just bumped it...

you noob