mikey4410 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) so after my dyno run with not to great results I have done a compression test which shows bang on 150 over all four so looks like somerhings worn out.these engines are meant to have 175 stock and I know 150 is service limit so looks like time for rebuild of some sort.I am going to do a leak down test this week to see what exactly is failing .I take it this would ve my cuase of 180bhp on a td04 at a bar instead of the 220bhp it should definatley be.?? Edited March 23, 2015 by mikey4410 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
daniel_g Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Be interesting to see the leak down test results.180 on a TD04 @ 1 bar is a bit poor but not that shit considering its un mapped.Rebuild time at 150psi imo, time for a high comp build Mikey. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 just spoke to a mechanic mate of mine and he says its HUGELY unlikely that piston rings on all four cylinders have gone simultaneously.more than likely to be timing and or valves. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
daniel_g Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 With comp results like that it could be that the rings have just worn equally over time, not necessarily 'gone'. Also valves not seating correctly anymore is another likely scenario. If the timing was out on the belt it would run like a bag of shit and id be surprised if it would even make 180bhp lol. Base timing as you know should be 10btdc.Also any underlying faults like missfires, faulty knock, blocked fuel filter, fpr not set up correctly, etc will also cause poor bhp.Personally id make sure every possible thing is bang on first, then go down the rebuild route. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
morgey Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Did you do the comp test hot And WOT?I did a comp test on my 20v and that only pulled 155 +- 5psi (should be circa 190) but that pulled really good figures Considering the results and milage (155kms). You could always try the few drops on oil method to see if that bumps the results up? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 (edited) thanks for the replys dan.much appreciated.to give u an idea,when I bought the engine two years ago it was 180 over all four.it was perfect.its had oil change every 4 thousand miles without fail with mobil fully sythentic, i have had the cambelt of around 4/5 times since doin various things.it runs beautifully well,starts on the button hot or cold,new entire ignition system,tps set correctly,timings 10°, afrs are bang on and always have been.and yes I totally agree with you to do checks and leakdowns before rebuilding. timing belt is next up to check.thanks again for your time :-DMORGEY ...the test was done wot and full engine temp. thanks for checking though,appreciate it :-D Edited March 23, 2015 by mikey4410 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I think the minimum before rebuild is 140psi. A leak down will deffinately show a better indication of engine health. For a road engine off the top of my head I think maximum leakage is around 12%. For a race motor it's 3% I know that for sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 yeah I knew it was around 150 ish,but for me its gotta be bang on and right so I am going to do something about it.yeah I am looking forward to seeing what the leakdown shows adam.as for the leakage yeah I read ideally it really shoukd be under 14%.thanks matey :-D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
_shaun_ Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Nice solid starter motor and battey I take it and a good quality tester. if any are weak it might not Have the grunt to turn it over.Personally I'd get it mapped. You seemed very happy with it before your bhp result. Personal thought is your just looking for a problem because your power figure was under what you expected but in reality the way it's being managed is considered crude by a lot of people and a fair few predicted the lower results. It's a lot of time and money to rebuild the engine to find out its management where the problems Lie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 yeah starter and battery are in good order.I have very good voltages also etc.as for the getting it mapped and it not being that bad dyno result,the cars compression is at the limit or service so needs action and the compression being so low is going to cause power loss. it should be a good 210 plus for a td04L @1bar with a fcd. its only because of this dyno run the poor power has come to my attention and I have looked into it and found a fault.thanks for comments. :-D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 all the same readings ,150 psi Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patman Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Absolutely gutted for you Mikey mate, once my car was run in I was gonna pop up to see you always had an interest in your car as you know as love the unique stuff you have done to it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 yeah I knew it was around 150 ish,but for me its gotta be bang on and right so I am going to do something about it.yeah I am looking forward to seeing what the leakdown shows adam.as for the leakage yeah I read ideally it really shoukd be under 14%.thanks matey :-D Are you using an FTE motor or an FE mate? For an FE that is definately low. Have you whipped the sump off by any chance? Ever had the headgasket replaced? Reason I ask is there could be a possibility of some forged pistons in there which will lower peak cylinder pressure a bit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 its a proper fte matey,yeah tiz on service limitheadgasket I have done as a precaution last year and stocker went on to replace the stocker headgasket. defo all standard inside manas I say above when I bought engine it was 180 over all four as I did the test personally. theres no way the rings have gone in two years of me over maintaining the car and using the best oil.gotta be up top or timing of a tooth im sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
daniel_g Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Try another gauge, you might be sending yourself on a wild goose chase Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 yeah cheers for advice ,good shout. thanks for all ure help . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 i wouldnt worry about results being on the low side so long as they are all similar. if one was way low id worry. Drive on, and get it mapped. Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mike@TD.co.uk Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 i wouldnt worry about results being on the low side so long as they are all similar. if one was way low id worry. Drive on, and get it mapped. Phil This... 150 over all four is fine. Thanks Mike Jones Tuning Developments Ltd Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 i wouldnt worry about results being on the low side so long as they are all similar. if one was way low id worry. Drive on, and get it mapped. Phil It's not strictly true, you could have a motor with 80psi across all four, but does that mean it's a workable and serviceable motor just because all cylinders are equal? The line has to be drawn somewhere and that's why service limits are in place. I'm not saying there is or isn't anything wrong with Mikey's motor, it's his car at the end of the day and knows it better than anyone. Having looked back at your other dyno thread, 180bhp is probably about right for a TD04 @1 bar with only AFR tuning. Very little power is made by tuning with AFR, power is made with ignition advance and since you don't have anyway of adjusting that it's probably quite a healthy figure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 cheers adam.I am with you. its gotta be sorted.the service limits there for good reason I guess.whatever happens I will fix in within the next few weeks. the fact is its not the compression its meant to have and I will sort it.as yes they are all spot on 150psi on all four,no variation Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 (edited) It's not strictly true, you could have a motor with 80psi across all four, but does that mean it's a workable and serviceable motor just because all cylinders are equal?The line has to be drawn somewhere and that's why service limits are in place. I'm not saying there is or isn't anything wrong with Mikey's motor, it's his car at the end of the day and knows it better than anyone. Having looked back at your other dyno thread, 180bhp is probably about right for a TD04 @1 bar with only AFR tuning. Very little power is made by tuning with AFR, power is made with ignition advance and since you don't have anyway of adjusting that it's probably quite a healthy figure. cheers adam.I am with you. its gotta be sorted.the service limits there for good reason I guess.whatever happens I will fix in within the next few weeks. the fact is its not the compression its meant to have and I will sort it.as yes they are all spot on 150psi on all four,no variation Look what you gone and done Adam with you not strictly true comment LOL Its all Mikey has read and now he is going to rebuild his engine! @150 across all 4 i wouldnt bother rebuilding, Adam wouldn't either. if you want more power buy a piggyback emanage and fill your boots. rebuild when you have to or when your going forged. Phil Edited March 24, 2015 by Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 no no no.lolI have taken all comments into consideration,I have read on a few occasions online that toyota handbook says about 150 being service limit.the cars running lovely and always has done.just needs a freshen up I guess.theres more investigating to be done before any rebuild or disassembly.:-D pmsl Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jayc-glanza17 Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Agree with Phil on this mikey And I believe Adam is correct 140 is the service limit.If you are really worried, whip sump off and see if and remnants of rings in sump.plus take the result with a pinch of salt, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Look what you gone and done Adam with you not strictly true comment LOL Its all Mikey has read and now he is going to rebuild his engine! @150 across all 4 i wouldnt bother rebuilding, Adam wouldn't either. if you want more power buy a piggyback emanage and fill your boots. rebuild when you have to or when your going forged. Phil Haha always subject of controversy my friend Certainly right, I wouldn't go splashing out a rebuild because of 150psi. Infact I will probably go as far as saying providing the engine has maintained good oil change intervals, the leakage will be most past the valve seats. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 yeah my car has fully synthetic mobil oil every four thousand miles,is ALWAYS warmed up and cooled down.I cant see rings wearing from 180 down to 150psi in two years being treated so well.I just cant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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