the point si was making was that for the same money, you can get MUCH better wheels for the price, if you look for them. tbh, the only ones that really let go hard are the flimsy designed ones like the CE28 reps etc. because they just dont have enough structure to cope with load. the te37 copys wont snap like that, but the quality is still questionable. if you thumped a curb they may dent or crack easier than a forged wheel. i just know what id be buying if i had the choice of a new set of rotas or a virtually new, second hand set of Rays.