Sam44 Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 I'm running the zisco narrow diameter exhaust manifold externally gated with equal length runners because of turbo choice and hyb design this manifold is neat and compact also promotes high gas speeds to spool the turbo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) Sounds like a plan and get a build up as soon as you can your build sounds very exciting to me with real thought and planning. There's not many on here with this aprouch to street tuning. Check out Brad's MK1 GT it's a real street/track animal design. This thing will destroy most 300hp starlets around the street and track. Edited June 1, 2020 by Sam44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RoyalDutchie Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Are you going to try and fit the c64 lotus box to the (4-5)e engine? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, RoyalDutchie said: Are you going to try and fit the c64 lotus box to the (4-5)e engine? Morning dutchie Yeh its nearly ready I've had a crown gear made to fit the lotus box and the bolt pattern on the diff unit from the GT and glanza box. I've also had the gears ceramic bead polished\hardened and I'm waiting on a carbon syncro set to arrive. Plus new bearings seals and spacers. I've had to swap the bellhousing and bearings over. The box is longer than all other 6speed units because of the even wider gears inside. This leads to the box not quite fitting in the engine bay. it all bolts in place mount wise but end cap is around 1inch longer requiring slight fabrication of the near side inner wing\chassie leg. Not a big job To honest but in order to do it you need the tools and transmission know how. All in all its cost me around £1700 quid with the gearbox price included. Edited June 2, 2020 by Sam44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RoyalDutchie Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Not to expensive and a proper fix for the limiting gears of the c5x gearbox, Definitely want to do the c64 upgrade myself when tuning for power. Using the gt glanza diff would definitely be quite handy and makes the swap a bit easier. Personally been looking into the oem helical lsd of the ae111 Corolla Levin and a few JDM yaris models, seems to be a good lsd for the money. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 (edited) Definitely very impressed with it. Close ratio sports box and the strongest c series 6speed I've come across. I have a c161 here I think it is off the g6 corrola. This is slightly longer than the ae111 Levin box so I'd say that's the 2nd strongest. Thanks for that information on the lsd units do you have make and models if possible, these units I have here are a bit agresive for the road plus the thick oil required for there operation does not really suite the high rpm gearbox bearings. I'm hoping to use the VW dsg oil. Edited June 2, 2020 by Sam44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RoyalDutchie Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 (edited) Oem number is 41301-12190 came on the ae111 Corolla Levin/Sprinter Trueno. Ever Corolla Levin bzr seems to have a lsd unit. Also came with a few Toyota Vitz models(the NCP91 and NCP13(1)) as an optional extra. Sometimes if you are lucky these units go for 180 euros, but 300 is not unusual. Also do not know what power those diffs can handle. They are part of the TRD line(part number 41301-AE000) so should be able to handle a good amount of power. edit: Helical lsd's are in my opinion the best for street use, clutch type lsds just are to aggressive. Edited June 2, 2020 by RoyalDutchie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted June 2, 2020 Author Share Posted June 2, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, RoyalDutchie said: Oem number is 41301-12190 came on the ae111 Corolla Levin/Sprinter Trueno. Ever Corolla Levin bzr seems to have a lsd unit. Also came with a few Toyota Vitz models(the NCP91 and NCP13(1)) as a optional extra. Thank you so much. I'm writing all this down to add to the information I have here. Because of the crazy off the line acceleration I'm getting lift off oversteer and the fact of these diff units unlocking as soon as I lift off makes for some interesting handling especially while cornering. Very interesting. I've never quite felt anything like it. The brake bias valve helps sit the arse end down but the front end understeer that the lsd produces I'm unsure what can be done about it other than changing it. Edited June 2, 2020 by Sam44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted June 6, 2020 Author Share Posted June 6, 2020 (edited) Brake bias valve Adjustable lever type & fitting Edited June 6, 2020 by Sam44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Claymore Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Hello, Any updates on this? It seems to have progressed quite a bit from when you started. Would love to see an engine bay shot with all the new developments I know people are getting busier again but this looked like a totally different project. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted July 5, 2020 Author Share Posted July 5, 2020 (edited) As soon as I tidy little/lots of little/ok now big things out. Haha. I've had to lengthen the throttle cable quickly!! Not tidy I've had to mount the map sensor with cable ties directly into the manifold. Move the battery and in its place put the C4 external coil and boost controller selonid in its original place. As well as the fuel cooler needs securing in place. I also want to move/shorten the external gate closer to the manifold. Reducing the waste gate pipe volumes this also needs plumbing back into the exhaust system post external gate and turbo removing the screamer noise. Itg intake filter. Tidy the loom up to the original lamba sensor and new nock sensor. Fitting this with new belt and tentioner I'm back from work any week I hope I'll get a move on it and get some pictures up before it goes in for paint. Also to fit is this walbro pump to be fitted in tank "Y" in parrelle along side the kemso 340. Dual pump setup. G6 lsd box also going in. The c64 is on hold for now as the n/s chassis leg is getting fabrication to fit before paint. Edited August 3, 2020 by Sam44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted July 7, 2020 Author Share Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) Corrola g6 6speed gearbox found at a local car brakers £50. Just picked up on my dinner hour. Will do as a spare box. Can someone please tell me where the gearbox codes are found!!! It is the "E" series bell housing and not the A https://www.armstrongfamilyblog.com/armstrongracing/comparing-the-toyota-c160-to-the-c60-6-speed-transaxle-evolution Armstrong Family - YouTube Gearbox cleaned up cleaned out with new bearings stronger selector springs and thicket c54 syncro folks fitted + seals, with the reconditioned Cusco lsd unit. It's alittle noisier but stronger. (This was found to be the older exedy clutch unit that had seen 2years of track use. The friction plate springs were worn badly.) 200mm low anertia light weight clutch (new) the old unit is getting noisier with every gearbox option change tested. Correct spline fittment, ( UK g6 corrola gearbox and UK ep91 4efe 5speed)and clutch diameter for the UK ep91 4efe. Additional 5efe paseo gearbox braces fitted. Armstrong Family - YouTube Modified beefed up rear engine mount (after I ripped one I out trying 2nd gear laurches with the Levin bzr c160 box) destroying the box casing. Additional EP82&91 left chassis engine mount support bracket to fit. Highlighted bellow are the flat Allen key caps that house the selector gate gear position lock-in locks. A tip here is to remove the springs and stretch them by around 7mm. This gives a much better gate feel for hard fast gearing. The old standard 6speed differential. Note the crown gear bolt pattern and cross shaft seen threw the drive shaft eylets. .. Edited December 22, 2020 by Sam44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mycars12 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Please loctite those bolts on the cam gear. Seen too many people not have them tight or locitie and it moved Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted July 9, 2020 Author Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) On 7/8/2020 at 3:11 AM, mycars12 said: Please loctite those bolts on the cam gear. Seen too many people not have them tight or locitie and it moved Thanks for the advice I'll make sure to do that, I wasn't going to. It's great having others with experience that known the pit falls. Edited July 9, 2020 by Sam44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Claymore Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) On 7/7/2020 at 12:55 PM, Sam44 said: Corrola g6 6speed gearbox found at a local car brakers £50. Just picked up on my dinner hour. Will do as a spare box. Can someone please tell me where the gearbox codes are found!!! It is the "E" series bell housing and not the A Gearbox cleaned up cleaned out with new bearings and seals fitted and the Cusco lsd unit. Bargain find for £50! Nice progress. Edited July 12, 2020 by Claymore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted July 12, 2020 Author Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Claymore said: Bargain find for £50! Nice progress. Took me a full hour routing threw a pile of Toyota gearboxes to find it. Inside is clean as a whistle. I took a chance on it being a good one. A few old pictures of the engine bay when I fitted the silicone hoses replacing all the poor Toyota spring hose clips that come standard with good jubilee clips Edited July 12, 2020 by Sam44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted July 12, 2020 Author Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) Plus I got this paseo mph dash from the same Toyota breakers for 35 quid. These will be easier to read at speed. The all black cd model and sr model dials are not the best to read on hard pull. Edited August 3, 2020 by Sam44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mycars12 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 by the way the c52 is alot stronger than that 6speed. From what I've read the 6speed don't like more than 200hp but then again how you drive makes quite the difference. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, mycars12 said: by the way the c52 is alot stronger than that 6speed. From what I've read the 6speed don't like more than 200hp but then again how you drive makes quite the difference. Depends which 6speed, I'm making my way threw opening them up. To put a hp limit on them is not really the aprouch I'd use. The 6speeds have better bearings and more of them so hp it can take torque is another story with a sharp rpm hit the problem. Alot of them have slightly narrower gears but only slightly. The 4+:1 final drive and the very close gear ratios smoothen out the mph build (it feels like 1 gear) removing load from the engine and in turn the gearbox. There's alot better in corner gear/mph selection making for better out of corner acceleration. The draw back to unloading the engine is later boost build in the rpm band. if you shift early in the rpm band and load the engine with the next gear up 3rd or 4th you can hit the same rpm to build boost sooner like you would get with the long gear gaps in the 5speeds, but lose mph build/control that comes with agresive turbo surge. Also because of the reduction in engine load the 4efe + t runs safer, but as this and you pointed out you have to know how to drive in order to not break things. Smooth and intelligent rather than hard and aggressively. Also not suited for the strip. The 2 main areas of improvement for fast gear changes are swaping out the thinner 6speed selector folks which crack with fast gear changing, this happens because the clutch is not fully disengaged when the gear is changed. (so the timing between foot and hand) for the thicker 5 speed folks and spot weilding the sirclips on the end of the main input shaft and lay shaft as these have a tendance of coming off with fast shifting. There are more positives than negatives to the 6 speeds. Engine torque output dependent, the main differences being topspeed and acceleration/mph times against hp required Most 6speeds will reach around 140mph. Basically the 6speeds achieve faster mph times on less hp. (Hits target speed sooner/less time on throttle giving mpg gains) This is why they come in bigger heavy Toyota's with low engine hp output. With the C63, c64 and c160 different again. The C63 and c64 are the strongest and equally as strong as any 5speed with a top speed of around 140mph and the weaker c160 that has a higher topspeed and bigger overdrive 6th gear. I hope this makes sense. These are crazy fast on 5efte engines (high torque output around 160 to 200hp) silly fast setups. I'd certainly recommend saving money on engine strengthening and investing in a 6 speed lsd box. I reckon a tf035 4efte around 160 to 180hp with very good rubber (tyres) will have the ability to hit 5seconds to 60mph. Focused for use on Street and track. Edited July 15, 2020 by Sam44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mycars12 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) Just sharing what I have read. Ive seen c52 handle 500+ whp but no 6 speed will handle that unless its a dogbox. Just what is tried and true is that the C5x boxes are stronger than the C1x C1x were mostly economy trans and C5x were built stronger. C52/C56 even came with an extra brace for the case of the trans. The main issue is with all that torque the gears are basically pulling themselves apart from each other. 3rd is the gear that is known to fail the most often on high hp applications. Edited July 15, 2020 by mycars12 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted July 15, 2020 Author Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) On 7/15/2020 at 4:40 PM, mycars12 said: Just sharing what I have read. Ive seen c52 handle 500+ whp but no 6 speed will handle that unless its a dogbox. Just what is tried and true is that the C5x boxes are stronger than the C1x C1x were mostly economy trans and C5x were built stronger. C52/C56 even came with an extra brace for the case of the trans. The main issue is with all that torque the gears are basically pulling themselves apart from each other. 3rd is the gear that is known to fail the most often on high hp applications. Yeh all information welcome. From what I've read on the matter on transmissions on these it's a very gray area with most people foucesing on hp. From what people have shared with me anything over 300hp and it's a guessing game as to what will break first, but you know it's coming. It's always handy to know how the transmission plays a vital roll in speed. High hp normally delivers better 70 to 160mph times. At a cost to either reliability or low speed mph times. The 6 speeds because of there 4+:1 ratio final drive aren't a match. At this point I'd underline the starlets shape and it's inability to easily hunt down speeds over 120mph requiring lots of hp to overcome drag. This in its self becomes very expensive. Like most things in tunning it's a balancing act the best way to aprouch this is to know the stage you are going to be proforming on. The 6speed boxes come into there own from 70hp to around 260hp and can take these power levels with slight moding. Around 130 to 200hp none forged engine power is were you can hit super and hyper car 0 to 100mph times, with mods like lsd and very good rubber. Which the 250+hp c52 and c56 starlets simply will not be able to match around town. These boxes contribute to crazy mph times that are insane for this hp this is down to the close ratio gear set with no overdrive 6gear and the built for acceleration 4+:1 final drive. The extra braces are very worth while a well placed engine shock absorber even better. Edited July 19, 2020 by Sam44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted July 19, 2020 Author Share Posted July 19, 2020 (edited) Main difference between the UK ep91 1997 starlet C series 5speed gearbox and the g6 6speed gearbox The end caps are the only feature that tells them apart. The alloy cap is the 6speed, you can see the bearing sets in the alloy end cap casing these additional gearing sets are only present on the 6speed boxes. And the c56 glanza gearbox and c52 GT box have the alloy end cap with out the additional bearing set as can be seen bellow. In order to fit the 6 speed to the ep91 and ep82 You need the gearbox and either an aftermarket short shifter or to modify the original shift housing so as to get the swing range of the H pattern selector see picture bellow. That's it then your ready to rock. Fitted this is the left side chassis leg clearance to the g6 box Edited July 19, 2020 by Sam44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted July 19, 2020 Author Share Posted July 19, 2020 (edited) Picked this up today for a steel price. And gave the g6 gearbox a motorway run. Edited January 3, 2021 by Sam44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sam44 Posted August 2, 2020 Author Share Posted August 2, 2020 (edited) Front and rear suspention polyurethane bushes. New front top mounts and bottom ball joints. Polo 6n2 modified coil overs getting a freshen up. New front roll bar drop links. EPR bolt on wheel spacers. Edited April 6, 2021 by Sam44 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akyakapotter Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, Sam44 said: Front and rear suspention polyurethane bushes. I've just done superpro front bush kit on mine haven't driven yet though. Looking good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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