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Starlet Ep91 4efe turbo conversion.


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  • 3 weeks later...

Some interesting developments today on the starlet, the first day we have managed to take the car out for afew weeks. 

We have really managed to shake down the turbo lag/boost deliver system with great results. 

We have delivered additional hp/torque in the 2000 to 3000rpm band with reduced turbo lag on standard td04l unit. 3000rpm is the point boost pressure is delivered to the engine. We have also had to use the external waste gate to help regulate turbo rpm before peak boost to keep intake charge temps down (the turbo just wants to run away with its self) @ .5bar it's hitting an estimated 200hp on a standard tdo4l unit. 

The fueling figures read: 

4bar constant fuel rail pressure

372cc 3sge green injectors running at 70% duty. Reduced from 80% with the additional walbro fuel pump in the system. 

We have then used the pre turbo throttle to control boost pressure against increased turbo rpm to deliver a gradual power delivery safer for the 4efe engine. 

I'll post up diagrams of the system very soon. 

I'm a happy chap today. 

Further developments to come:

Box in the hks blow off valve (original intercooler piping position) adding a small bonnet scoop and air filter. (This valve remains open out of turbo boost to allow the engine to breath to its full potential) the scoop and box will bring in cool filtered air. 

The boost/torque control system is starting to become complex. A Fail safe system/devices will be introduced incase of a fault happening. 

We are currently looking to design a electrically controlled veriable geometry exhaust side of the td04 hyb also housing an rpm sensor.   

I also have a corrola tubular manifold on its way thanks to dutchie that will be modified with a increased plenum chamber volume/size this will increase set off engine torque and deliver a even cylinder power delivery. 

 

 

 

wTzFmRs.jpg

This graph is off a 4efe ep91 starlet using the tubular manifold to great affect from 0rpm to around 3000rpm you can see the constant torque delivery this manifold delivers (increased air velocity/inlet gas flow) increasing low to mid engine rpm cylinder volumetric efficiency. 

20200620_085308.jpg

The aim is to achieve an almost table top torque curve. (This is 1 of the best 4efe graphs I've seen running this manifold compliments of skinny). 

you can see the immediate engine power/torque delivery from this manifold, and also the sharp power drop off around 5krpm. this enlarged plenum chamber and the twin audi 55mm+ throttle and also the normally open bov will deal with this area keeping it up with the turbo amplifying the graph. 

here is a recently turboed 4efe running the tubular inlet (look how the drop off remains and the boost build is very hard to spot) amplified by the turbo. 

there is also the option of using the 4efte inlet cam to again help mid to high rpm power/torque. this manifold and cam combo.

    

 

Bellow is a picture I was sent as to how the lads in Jamaica modify there inlets to achieve better 4400 to 6000rpm power. 

IMG_2461.jpg

4efe turbo graph on a fuel pump and tuular inlet.jpeg

A good tip on saving money and using great air filters is to get an itg sock filter 

For a side draft card or itb. These cost around 25quid and are used in top class motor sport. 

16126494988961252442100.jpg

Temp fitting to get a feel for the increased turbo spool and lowdown torque. 

Makes a hell of a difference on the tdo4l hyb, knocking a good 500rpm off the start of boost build. 

 

 

16152110957871283480296.jpg

Edited by Sam44
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Yeh I've contacted afew breakers that have them but there not up for selling them separate. Alot of these engines now go for export, to Africa needing all there supporting systems. It appears they fit them in any shell. 

Edited by Sam44
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2 hours ago, Sam44 said:

We are currently looking to design a electrically controlled veriable geometry exhaust side of the td04 hyb also housing an rpm sensor.

The boost/torque control system is starting to become complex. A Fail safe system/devices will be introduced incase of a fault happening.

I'm glad you brought this up, the current system you describe seems very complicated and more components always provides more opportunity for component / system failure. Let alone the weight / packaging concerns of such a small engine bay.

With variable geometry turbo's being more common place (Holset make one 😉) would it not make more sense to design a vgt install (manifold and downpipe) from the ground up thus making all the "anti lag" systems redundant? Or would an electronic wastegate give enough control of boost build and pressure instead? 

There seems to be alot of development of turbo design and control methods available.

Looking forward to photos of the engine bay, been ages since you posted any, must look totally different to the ones from the first page.

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yep yep and nope in hindsight a vg turbo is required, we are having some problems whilst hitting full boost (over 1bar) with intake temps. this is the reason we are developing the system at .5bar to bein with, as we modify/make the tdo5 anti surge compressor housing/shell to fit (this allows the turbo surge to be managed a lot better bringing 1 hell of a torque gain in the proses).  I really didn't think the turbo would react the way it does.  the thing about the mitsubishi turbo has allowed us to develop a very cheap turbo alongside this system, which to be honest ive copied off the previous owner ho has helped a lot. Im just now starting to develop it past his setup. better injectors are needed. the newer turbo systems out there are using systems like this as well as complex valve Trian control these cars cost a lot more than im willing to spend a lot more and there weight is not even close. most opt for a simple twin turbo design. but then it becomes hard to achieve very good engine efficiency.

the added weight and complexity is not that much, but its starting to develop that way. a lot of the things introduced are basic with not a lot to go wrong on them.  

just at present we are constantly changing things under the bonnet but before we heatshield everything and the system is looking how it should pictures will be put up.

for example this week we have nocked up a 45deg angled adaptor bracket to fit in-between the audi throttle body and inlet manifold this has helped ramp/direct the incoming air across the back face of the 5efe inlet manifold plenum chamber this has help feed all the cylinders with an even air charge. this has meant we have cut up the intercooler piping and added joints as well as have other piping hanging loose. very ugly.  as soon as im happy with testing and power output we can focus on getting her ready to show. at present she is abit of an "ugly duckling". 

just to add here the full system is there really to maximize engine torque output by increasing cylinder volumetric efficiency at various points in the rpm range, this both affects turbo repose and as we are finding giving us the ability to run multiple settings for improved traction and also things like an economy mode dropping out one of the injectors running 3 cylinders giving impressive mpg figures. if we now increase intake charge temps by 10degC mpg improves again. as you can imagine we are starting to require the mega squirt v3 standalone ive got here waiting in the wings the close ratio gear box is also very impressive, and helping reduce/limmit engine loading points. 

Edited by Sam44
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Oh dear.

I think the ride height is alittle low. 

Daniel hit the exhaust Flexi whilst setting up over the weekend. 

New longer Flexi on order. 

Does any body know were I can find gaskets for the early japspeed exhaust I've emailed them in the past with no reply. 

IMG_20201026_122639.jpg

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Some new exhaust parts turned up today. 

New longer exhaust Flexi and new high flow catalytic converter both damaged after an exhaust ground strike. 

 

 

 

 

 

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4.5 inch exhaust bung to reduce the low noise from the map speed exhaust system. 

 

16126491142151173411126.jpg

Edited by Sam44
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thanks. im a sucker for a bargain. ive got quite a network of starlet people/parts/information providers. all really love this little car.

i cant wait to get back onto this in January, and start to drive it around next year is going to be so much fun. 

we did go a little to low on the ride height lol, but as you all probably know its hard to say stop there when you have adjustable suspension items.

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55 minutes ago, Sam44 said:

thanks. im a sucker for a bargain. ive got quite a network of starlet people/parts/information providers. all really love this little car.

i cant wait to get back onto this in January, and start to drive it around next year is going to be so much fun. 

we did go a little to low on the ride height lol, but as you all probably know its hard to say stop there when you have adjustable suspension items.

any pics of how it sits i had mine really low at one point the old springs had sagged so much over 10 years the tyres (45 profile) was in the front arch it looked good but my word it drove like shit 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/15/2020 at 1:34 PM, Sam44 said:

The lift difference between the UK ep91 4efe and 4efte inlet cam. 

1st up 4efe

 

IMG_20200915_132956.jpg

4efte inlet cam bellow. 

 

IMG_20200915_133046.jpg

.8mm more lift on the 4efte unit. Which can clearly be seen on the Dyno graph torque peak and length. 

I'll update this with duration and other cams I have here (5efe, 5ehfe, gen1 JDM ep80, gen1 4efe E11 corrolla.

Took some pictures of my 5E-FHE cams while I had them out the box today, thought they might be some use to you or anyone else

Inlet:

DSC_0114.thumb.JPG.090a4197464965a2b22be673dc407e27.JPG

DSC_0115.thumb.JPG.6114ebebab72ac016501630a935cf410.JPG

 

Exhaust:

DSC_0113.thumb.JPG.f25a823148381d55b04280bddea56a68.JPG

DSC_0116.thumb.JPG.7536c92c7f9cdf62d455d07bf5b88a05.JPG

 

Also I'm not sure how true this is but from what I read somewhere today suggests the durations are all the same across the 4efe/4efte/5efe cams but slightly different for 5efhe cams 🤷🏼‍♂️

Edited by Trevstar
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thanks. yeh lift on these engines is were the power is. i suspect because of the large lift on the 5ehfe cams this will affect the duratiopn slightly 

were did you manage to get them and if there new were from. 

love this: thanks. 

Edited by Sam44
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Stole them out of a 5efhe I bought a few years ago and regrettably sold the bottom end, these might have some work done on them though for even more lift, not sure yet because of the cost involved.

But I'd like to look into and hope to have them reproduced/copied in the near future! 🤞🏻

Edited by Trevstar
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I just used putty on top of the piston, to measure the gap.

1 thing to watch out for is the valve springs going coil bound (spring coils touching). When going higher lift. Also under bucket Shims on the cam followers. 

Edited by Sam44
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  • 2 weeks later...

after seeing a set of these up come up for sale recently ive decided to purchase them to go on the starlet. 

reflex rear lights.

i had no idea these little cars could look as well as they do.

these are crazy easy to install.

reflex rear lights.jpg

Edited by Sam44
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  • Sam44 changed the title to Starlet Ep91 4efe turbo conversion.

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