4efe SWAP to 4efte in Corolla E11 1998

[Frankieflowers]

On 11/2/2020 at 8:29 PM, Sam44 said:

Just at present I'm looking for a E11 4efe corrola to utilise the faster engine ECU with ignition system. If I can find a low milage example this could work out nice. 

It would just be the bear block and cylinder head complete. For that price I will fit turbo valve springs and cams. 

That sounds interesting. If you could send me a short list with the total parts and prices (everything I need ready for a swap including piggy back with mapping data) all together with your work on a 4efe as you just said. This way I can compare total cost with the purchase of a full 4EFTE engine.

Example: 4efte full engine with gearbox (rather I use it or not) €2600 (taxes included); front Intercooler €400; fuel pump you suggested €250; water pump €100 ish; belts €100;, exhaust €850; labor €1000. Total €5300 (probably less)

 

[Sam44]

yeh.

ill message you at weekend. 

with the global covid situation, ive been stationed away from the uk. im hoping till January. the next 12month plans, and near future is very uncertain.  

with this in taken into consideration. ill message you some engine ideas and prices. 

 

 

 

  

[Frankieflowers]

3 hours ago, Sam44 said:

yeh.

ill message you at weekend. 

with the global covid situation, ive been stationed away from the uk. im hoping till January. the next 12month plans, and near future is very uncertain.  

with this in taken into consideration. ill message you some engine ideas and prices. 

 

 

 

  

Yes sir. I  have lost so much work because of this and I really need this to be a positive project to make me happy. I’ll wait for your message. Thank you

[Frankieflowers]

I am looking at a 4EFTE 5speed EP91 engine 1.6 L that I found in the United States. I didn’t know that the 1.6 L even existed. 

[Sam44]

the 4-e series toyota engine is a 1.3ltr from the factory. the 4-a series engine is a 1.6ltr. the 7-e is a 1.8ltr  

[Sam44]

the engine.  

rebuilt 4EFE with original cast domed pistons skimmed flat to give a 8.1 compression ratio.

it will have the 4efte inlet cam, as well as the valve springs. this means a 7krpm red line is achievable/acceptable. 

it will have honed bores, acl high load bigend bearings, polished crank pins, with all machined sharp edges removed. i do recommend having the crank pins case hardened. i can have this done at an additional cost. 

the head and engine block surfaces will be skimmed, the original toyota composite head gasket and head bolts will be used.  

it will have an e11 oil pump fitted. and full engine gasket and seal kit used. 

the engine will need a run in process be be carried out, this consists of 1000miles with around 5 engine oil, and filter changes at set intervals.  

 

[Frankieflowers]

11 hours ago, Sam44 said:

the engine.  

rebuilt 4EFE with original cast domed pistons skimmed flat to give a 8.1 compression ratio.

it will have the 4efte inlet cam, as well as the valve springs. this means a 7krpm red line is achievable/acceptable. 

it will have honed bores, acl high load bigend bearings, polished crank pins, with all machined sharp edges removed. i do recommend having the crank pins case hardened. i can have this done at an additional cost. 

the head and engine block surfaces will be skimmed, the original toyota composite head gasket and head bolts will be used.  

it will have an e11 oil pump fitted. and full engine gasket and seal kit used. 

the engine will need a run in process be be carried out, this consists of 1000miles with around 5 engine oil, and filter changes at set intervals.  

 

How much would this cost and what else would I need to get it running as a 4efte? I should have an aprox quote with all the parts to decide if I should do this or buy the full 4efte. I found a 4efte in the UK without gearbox for about £1850. You told me that I could use my 4efe Corolla E11 gearbox. Are gears on the E11 shorter? Did you tell me about it or am I mistaken? My engine reaches180 Kmh at 5400 Rpm with his 88 hp. The 4efte generates 135 hp so maybe gears should be longer?

The moment I get an approximate quote I can decide which way to go. Thanks

[Frankieflowers]

On 10/19/2020 at 12:45 AM, Sam44 said:

In my opinion the corollas come with the best boxes. 

 

As I remembered you suggest keeping my Corolla gearbox. Buying the 4efte engine without gearbox will save me €600. You agree?

[Frankieflowers]

11 hours ago, Sam44 said:

the 4-e series toyota engine is a 1.3ltr from the factory. the 4-a series engine is a 1.6ltr. the 7-e is a 1.8ltr  

Yeah that’s weird because this American JDM shop is selling the 1.6 L. It says it’s the 4efte. Are they mistaken?

 

 

[Sam44]

22 hours ago, Frankieflowers said:

As I remembered you suggest keeping my Corolla gearbox. Buying the 4efte engine without gearbox will save me €600. You agree?

yeh. your gearbox will do for now and save you some money just at present. 

 

22 hours ago, Frankieflowers said:

How much would this cost and what else would I need to get it running as a 4efte? I should have an aprox quote with all the parts to decide if I should do this or buy the full 4efte. I found a 4efte in the UK without gearbox for about £1850. You told me that I could use my 4efe Corolla E11 gearbox. Are gears on the E11 shorter? Did you tell me about it or am I mistaken? My engine reaches180 Kmh at 5400 Rpm with his 88 hp. The 4efte generates 135 hp so maybe gears should be longer?

The moment I get an approximate quote I can decide which way to go. Thanks

yeh the gearbox will suit the heavier car better. 

i will message you the engine price.  

[Frankieflowers]

On 10/28/2020 at 7:22 PM, Calum122 said:

Forging the engine and rebuild is going to cost you £2000. But that money is well spent as you can have a fully rebuilt motor ready to rock and roll. Without the faff of swapping engines.

Can you please help with a list and with some technical step by step process? I’d do it your way but The people I know here don’t have the confidence you guys have forging a 4efe and putting it together with turbo, IC, bolts, oil pipes, steering pump modification and mapping would cost me a lot. I would need to buy the 4EFTE components plus the turbo and the intercooler. The forged engine would cost at least €2000 and all together at least €4000? Including the piggyback of course. I have a budget limit and I’m scared to get stuck.

Aboit the swap option. I found a 4efte engine in without box for about £1600 and the shop told me I should use a 4afe box instead of my Corolla e11 4efe box. They said that the 4afe box is strong as the 4efte is. The 4efe won’t resist the torque. He would sell me the 4afe box for £350. Shipment to Italy would be £159. The engine comes from a half cut so they will get the fuse box out. It means less drama to connect it to the Corolla fuse box. ECU is easy to place. What about the loom and sensors? How to adapt the 4efe inlet to the 4efte engine? You guys told me it’s more efficient. What about the gearbox bolts? I read so much about missing holes and stuff like that. I just wanna give a step by step list to my mechanic to save labor time and get this amazing project going. It would be the first #turborolla in Italy! Hope you can help.

[Frankieflowers]

28 minutes ago, Sam44 said:

i will message you the engine price.

Thanks

[Frankieflowers]

On 10/30/2020 at 11:47 AM, Claymore said:

Turbocharge the 4efe engine that is already in the car. Should be good for 150ps and last an ok amount of time (depending on condition of engine, maintenance etc. Low cost option.

4efte engine swap (with or without gearbox) good for around 220ps assuming the engine is actually any good. Medium cost.

If I could get some of you guys to do the job I would turbocharge my engine and get a decent amount of horsepower (180 max) for a daily use. The fact that there is no mechanic here that has a complete vision of the project it worries me and pulls me back. Even if you could forge a 4EFE engine, I still would have to put all the other parts together as you listed and buying all those components, the 4EFTE parts and the new parts such as turbo and piggyback, it would cost me more than what I think. Probably. This is why it’s safer to swap it with a 4EFTE and get my shop to work only on some detail, like fuse box wiring and fitting the intercooler. I am sure they could do it well even if they don’t have experience on these engines.

I can buy a 4EFTE with fuse box, ECU, loom, IC and everything else ready for swap with a 4AFE gearbox. The seller told me that the box is strong as the 4EFTE is. This will save me 250 pounds. I would buy a new fuel pump, water pump, belts and get it running. I need information to adapt the Corolla 4EFE inlet to the 4EFTE engine. I would keep the Corolla steering pump as you guys said. Basically I’m looking for a list to get everything done right. Can you help?  I’m ready to purchase the engine. Now it’s all about how much information I can gather before I proceed. Thanks

[Claymore]

10 hours ago, Frankieflowers said:

I can buy a 4EFTE with fuse box, ECU, loom, IC and everything else ready for swap with a 4AFE gearbox. The seller told me that the box is strong as the 4EFTE is. This will save me 250 pounds. I would buy a new fuel pump, water pump, belts and get it running. I need information to adapt the Corolla 4EFE inlet to the 4EFTE engine. I would keep the Corolla steering pump as you guys said. Basically I’m looking for a list to get everything done right. Can you help?  I’m ready to purchase the engine. Now it’s all about how much information I can gather before I proceed. Thanks

I would keep the 4efe gearbox that you have in the corolla. It should hold the power you want.

As far as I know the corolla manifold will fit to the 4efte head.

But be careful as there are 2 different heads. 

One type of 4efte head has an extra water outlet that is blocked by the 4efte inlet manifold. The other type of head has no water outlet.

Water outlet type:

Water outlet not covered by manifold.

You would have to weld some material to the inlet manifold flange to cover the hole IF you have the 4efte head with the water outlet.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Claymore

[Frankieflowers]

6 hours ago, Claymore said:

One type of 4efte head has an extra water outlet that is blocked by the 4efte inlet manifold. The other type of head has no water outlet.

Is there a code who identifies these two types of heads? Thanks

[Frankieflowers]

17 hours ago, Sam44 said:

yeh the gearbox will suit the heavier car better. 

i will message you the engine price.  

Thanks

[Sam44]

3 hours ago, Frankieflowers said:

Is there a code who identifies these two types of heads? Thanks

im not entirely sure, I cant find a code on the heads I have here.

from the information ive collected and been helped with there are 2 main different 4efe/4efte cylinder heads: the early gt mk1/mk2 heads are more refined and the positions of the valve ports are better leading to less of a tooling mark edge/ridge left in the heads port after the valve seat insert is cut into the head, this is the key area to focus on when port grinding and polishing is to be done.

you can identify these heads by way of the small square shaped coolant port/hole on the inlet manifold flange to head surface gearbox side of the engine.

what is the rpm limiter set at on your e11?

the ep91 4efe engine has a low rpm limit built into the production engine I believe its 6.4k or 6400rpm this is because of the heavier cast domed (high compression pistons). Toyota used weaker valve spring so the engine physically could not rev much higher (valve bounce)

the 4efte and 5efe engines have a 7k+rpm limit. they have stronger valve springs fitted. there pistons are flat top and lighter.  

    

Edited November 10, 2020 by Sam44

[Sam44]

thanks for adding the picture claymore, I didn't realise you had replied.

you also need to mount the inlet temp sensor into the intake manifold. this is housed in the e11 intake air filter box (only electrical 2 wire sensor in the air box)  

brad has a nice example of this done in his build thread on a e11 inlet

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Sam44

[Frankieflowers]

1 hour ago, Sam44 said:

you also need to mount the inlet temp sensor into the intake manifold

Thank you. I know where it’s housed but I don’t know how to put it into the inlet manifold. Do you have a picture or can you explain it to me?

[Frankieflowers]

1 hour ago, Sam44 said:

what is the rpm limiter set at on your e11?

I am not sure because I never brought it to the limiter. I have always change the gear at about 6000 RPM. I believe as you said it is around 6400 RPM. 

[Claymore]

1 hour ago, Sam44 said:

from the information ive collected and been helped with there are 2 main different 4efe/4efte cylinder heads: the early gt mk1/mk2 heads... 

you can identify these heads by way of the small square shaped coolant port/hole on the inlet manifold flange to head surface gearbox side of the engine.    

I've checked on a parts catalogue and it looks like the change in head design occurred early 1995, (checked EP82 gtt and gen 1 4efe corolla parts list). This was when the different manifold gasket was specified, which must match with the head change.

So a Glanza V 4efte engine (introduced 1996) should have the head without the extra coolant passage. Assuming it still has its original head and not been swapped in the past 24 years of it existing! I don't know if there is a way of physically telling one head from the other when assembled to manifold.

1 hour ago, Sam44 said:

the ep91 4efe engine has a low rpm limit built into the production engine I believe its 6.4k or 6400rpm this is because of the heavier cast domed (high compression pistons). Toyota used weaker valve spring so the engine physically could not rev much higher (valve bounce)

the 4efte and 5efe engines have a 7k+rpm limit. they have stronger valve springs fitted. there pistons are flat top and lighter.      

With all due respect, surely this is just an opinion? The only people who would know the reason for this spring selection are the Toyota engineers.

It is most likely that stronger valve springs were not required in a N/A,  economy focused, everyday engine that only revved to 6.?k rpm so no need to install them. Rather than intentionally limiting rpm with weak springs? The ECU also provides an electronic rev limit to safeguard the engine.

[Sam44]

yeh I can understand that.

I was told this off some of the people that build these forged engines. but to me it does make perfect sense. the 4efe pistons weight matches the g force calculations perfectly so it does make sense.

safe guards. why have more springs is a better question here, this then bings you to a better conclusion. could another source of ignition allow the engine to over rev, (pre ignition)   

the thing I have learnt to understand about Toyota is they do things to last.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Sam44

[Claymore]

Regarding head differences, quite often aluminium castings (and castings in general along with plastic injection mouldings) have a date cast into them from the mould for traceability etc. might help identify which head is which.

[Claymore]

1 hour ago, Sam44 said:

safe guards. why have more springs is a better question here, this then bings you to a better conclusion. could another source of ignition allow the engine to over rev, (pre ignition)

There are plenty of benefits to a lighter spring where suitable (less frictional losses, reduced load on valvetrain and reduced wear to shims etc...). Who's to say what the deciding factor was.

I would think a 4efe engine in a situation where it's screaming its tits off past redline due to pre ignition is a fairly rare occurrence. If it had the stiffer springs.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Claymore

[Sam44]

i dont think 7.4krpm is classed as screaming its tits off. which on W.O.T conditions it would be achievable should there be a hot spot in the cylinder.  

as for the other, wear, ok lets think so we think the springs on the 4efte are alot stronger. ive not seen any signs of heavy wear or additional wear on the 4efte heads, valve seats and cams.

question? do you know the rpm point at which valve bounce happens on a 4efte?. 

some people have used the much stronger VW polo 6n2 valve springs in there engine builds. yep polo springs are stronger? (eco engine)

Edited November 11, 2020 by Sam44