Dean @RW-Developments Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 chris can you not just put up a diagram or pics of the proper fitting of a catch can? the original reason i fitted a catch can was because the breather i put on the rocker cover started spitting oil residue all over my fresh rocker cover. are you saying keep the pvc valve connected standard and just have 1 line in? or could i not keep the pvc valve connected like standard but drill and weld a second nipple into the rocker so i will have 2 lines into the catch can with a breather on the catch can?might be completely wrong but hey hocheers Dean Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nastyrash 2003 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 If oil vapour/contaminants come out of the breather would they not also come out the pcv port?EDIT-Since you edited your post. Ok so your saying the best place to have a single catch tank is between the main rocker cover breather and inlet pre turbo?My question above still stands-why does more oil vapour /contaminants come out of the breather port? I've seen catch cans inbetween the inlet and pcv with plenty oil collected?how long u running for before u check the can fella. fouling is the main reason to run a catch can and thr is nothing fouling from the pcv after the TB. the other main reason is heat soak and finaly the breather to recert engine gasses. i have even seen a paint that ford use to stop iceing of the TB, as thy do not run a TB heater on the early Zetec engines this paint also help the air flow by reducing the frictional losses however tiny between the air flow and the port walls. but u could not clean out the TB as u would rub off the paint. slight oiling in the inlet runners has this same affect but the gains are very small. and was shown to me as a example of just how far u can go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nastyrash 2003 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 chris can you not just put up a diagram or pics of the proper fitting of a catch can? the original reason i fitted a catch can was because the breather i put on the rocker cover started spitting oil residue all over my fresh rocker cover. are you saying keep the pvc valve connected standard and just have 1 line in? or could i not keep the pvc valve connected like standard but drill and weld a second nipple into the rocker so i will have 2 lines into the catch can with a breather on the catch can?might be completely wrong but hey hocheers Deanyep mate use a air filter relocation kit and use a pipe coming out the pre turbo pipe (air filter relocation pipe) into a sealed catch can then into the large breather pipe that is on the top of the rocker cover. simple this way u stop the main fouling issue of the TB, but a very good point has been raised here that i did not think about and that is chatter, best to run a dump valve with this system so as to not provide any back presure.chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WallaceGlanza Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 It wasn't my car I was talking about-I still have the pcv hooked up as standard and just a filter on the breather.With what your saying I will just put the catch can off the breather then- for now, I may still get a second catch can to collect contaminants after the pcv. I thought the whole point in catch cans was to keep the inlet charge clean, not because of fowling as you say. Interesting!Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nastyrash 2003 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 now are we ready for a complete head fuck. if you want to do the best job run a smog pump, back in the 70's & 80's thy used these systems to help reduce emmision. how ever i have draw up a breather system instead of pumping fresh air into the exhaust system in pumped the blow-by gases out of an oil/air separator (catch can) tank which has been connected to the crankcase and cam cover, these pumps (secondary air injection, vaxhall) are quite reliable and older versions are belt driven but these are not to be pushed rpm wise. and are protected from exhaust back-fires by a check valve. look up Moroso pumps these would be ideal but are large. the 4 vane 22641 pump will pull over 15in vacuum and the smaller 3 vane 22640 pump @ 12in the 3 vane is a bit better street pump i recon. now i have given this away wat am i aiming for com on have a guess. how will this benafit this engine. chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nastyrash 2003 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 It wasn't my car I was talking about-I still have the pcv hooked up as standard and just a filter on the breather.With what your saying I will just put the catch can off the breather then- for now, I may still get a second catch can to collect contaminants after the pcv. I thought the whole point in catch cans was to keep the inlet charge clean, not because of fowling as you say. Interesting!Thanks.i can go on and on about emmision and the need for vac in the crank case as the positive presure on 1 side of the ?? and a negative presure on the other side helps the ?? to seal chrisand street engines routinely show 3-4% hp rise at 10-12in vacumm but thr are a difference if run on a dry sump engine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nastyrash 2003 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 wen u talk about cleaner air you are correct in the way that u do not want these gasses to enter the engine on hard acceleration or wen engine is louding under full throttle condistion this is wer the per turbo pipe comes into play also. but i think im just about to talk gobaldy gook to alot of u all now so yes u are right about the cleaner air oil vapour free (helping maintain fuel octane).chrisnow how many of u have i just lost. i can even talk about the need to run your oil level nearer the low level mark, makes for nice fuel economy cruising benafits. but thr are ways to do this properly so do not just try it u will need a windage try thats y i was after 1 for this engine recent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jamie1st Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Right, is there anything BAD about this? As this is the set-up I'm thinking of doing. If you can see writing.Jamie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nazzurro19 Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 thats how i wana run mine jamie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jamie1st Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 thats how i wana run mine jamieSweeet, hopefully more will agree! Been reading so many different way, but this seems the best IMOAlthough I'd be tempted to run a second catch can on the one with just a filter to avoid oil etc covering my rocker?Jamie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnboy GT Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I think ive just lost faith in my decision to buy a racetech rocker.. But again im not sure why! And saying this is going to get me an ass whooping but...Im with Dean, my thought was to have it to keep it clean..Someone tried before to explain this to me and i still dont get it! And i normally pick things up quickly!CheersJohn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jamie1st Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I think ive just lost faith in my decision to buy a racetech rocker.. But again im not sure why! And saying this is going to get me an ass whooping but...Im with Dean, my thought was to have it to keep it clean..Someone tried before to explain this to me and i still dont get it! And i normally pick things up quickly!CheersJohnKeep the inlet clean?Jamie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnboy GT Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Keep the inlet clean?JamieI thought that, but now im not even sure! The direction of flow would be from the rocker to the inlet would it not? So i can appreciate that the PCV should be left... How ever what i dont get is taking a feed from the air intake? Is this extracting oil vapour on the way in? And connecting it to the breather purely to collect oil?John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jamie1st Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I thought that, but now im not even sure! The direction of flow would be from the rocker to the inlet would it not? So i can appreciate that the PCV should be left... How ever what i dont get is taking a feed from the air intake? Is this extracting oil vapour on the way in? And connecting it to the breather purely to collect oil?JohnI just see it as improving the standard set-up by catching the oil before it goes back into the inlet, as there is more chance of blow by with higher boost, how ever I may be wrong, but after looking at so many different set-ups. I;m going with the one I drew a picture of. Yes, the direction of flow is from the rocker cover to the inletIs what extracting oil vapour on the way in?Jamie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnboy GT Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 I just see it as improving the standard set-up by catching the oil before it goes back into the inlet, as there is more chance of blow by with higher boost, how ever I may be wrong, but after looking at so many different set-ups. I;m going with the one I drew a picture of. Yes, the direction of flow is from the rocker cover to the inletIs what extracting oil vapour on the way in?JamieIve just had a look at Sparky's and Gavins.Gavin has a feed from his air intake and a feed from his PCV going to his catch tank.Not quite understanding why there is a feed being taken from the air intake... John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jamie1st Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Ive just had a look at Sparky's and Gavins.Gavin has a feed from his air intake and a feed from his PCV going to his catch tank.Not quite understanding why there is a feed being taken from the air intake... JohnWith the Inlet blocked off?Jamie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnboy GT Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 With the Inlet blocked off?JamieNah, from what i can gather he has put the catch tank inbetween effectively!John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WallaceGlanza Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Right, is there anything BAD about this? As this is the set-up I'm thinking of doing. If you can see writing.JamieYou'll want a second one way valve (what the pcv valve is) in between inlet and catch can to not pressurise the catch can, otherwise it's ok. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jamie1st Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 You'll want a second one way valve (what the pcv valve is) in between inlet and catch can to not pressurise the catch can, otherwise it's ok.Where would I get one of these?Jamie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nazzurro19 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 to be honest i quit ! i cba with a racespec and a catch can lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
enzo_e492901 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 The vent that is connected to the intake pipe serves two purposes and is as follows...In STOCK configuration when there is vacuum fresh filtered air is drawn into the crank case through the vent from the intake pipe and exits through the PCV valve into the intake manifold. This maintains a negative pressure in the crank case and carrys out moisture and any blow by gases thus preventing corrosion and sludge buildup in the crank case. When there is no vacuum and the PCV valve closes moisture and any blow by gases are drawn/forced out the vent in the opposite direction to what the fresh air was being drawn in. There is no fresh air or vacuum to help when the PCV valve is closed and that's most of the time.So mine is stock with a tank in between, just to catch the blow by.Gavin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnboy GT Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 The vent that is connected to the intake pipe serves two purposes and is as follows...In STOCK configuration when there is vacuum fresh filtered air is drawn into the crank case through the vent from the intake pipe and exits through the PCV valve into the intake manifold. This maintains a negative pressure in the crank case and carrys out moisture and any blow by gases thus preventing corrosion and sludge buildup in the crank case. When there is no vacuum and the PVC valve closes moisture and any blow by gases are drawn/forced out the vent in the opposite direction to what the fresh air was being drawn in. There is no fresh air or vacuum to help when the PVC valve is closed and that's most of the time.So mine is stock with a tank in between, just to catch the blow by.GavinThanks for that Gavin, that makes sense to me. So in your opinion the best setup for my car would be?... And should i keep my raceteck rocker or?...CheersJohn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nazzurro19 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 i know this sounds retarded but can someone do a paint picture of how exactly it should go so i can just follow it cause im confused with this whole pvc valve one way system, crankcase breather, inlet block etc ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nastyrash 2003 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 go on gavin do thm a drawing as i crap on the pc being an enginer (work with my hand). i know gavin understands the system prefect so wat ever he say im backing boys, its very simple and the race spec covers are 1 of the worst systems i have ever seen, 2 steps bsck from standard engine breathing. no joke, not just saying this, u might as well just vent to atmospher. cant belive a tunners would do this to a breather system.chris. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WallaceGlanza Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 i know this sounds retarded but can someone do a paint picture of how exactly it should go so i can just follow it cause im confused with this whole pvc valve one way system, crankcase breather, inlet block etc !You can see how Gavin/ enzo_e..., has his setup in the photo above, on the 4efte for the same setup you'll have the catch can in the line from the pcv to the inlet manifold, on the turbo you would need a second one way valve to stop the catch can being pressurised - this won't happen on an na so it's not needed. The second breather can then be linked back into the inlet pre-turbo with just a simple hose.Now what confuses me is nastyrash was saying the catch can was needed before the throttle body not after yet agrees with the set up above where the can is after the throttle body?? I'm thinking a two catch can set up may be the best....Oh and one way valves can be got off ebay easily, it doesnt need to be an expensive pcv valve, I got a 9mm one way valve for a few quid. -- http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fuel-Non-Return-Chec...=item439d503936 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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