Future build EP85 Turbo Rallycar...

[Noel Kelleher]

Hey guys, Im new to this site. Ive recently thought about building a rallycar out of an EP85 Starlet, I dont yet own an EP85 but since seeing and reading all of your info about these cars I think they would make a brilliant gravel rallycar.

My plan is months away but this is what Id like to build, I have previously built 2 rallycars in Ireland and am a panel beater by trade. I am fairly mechanically minded and would like to think that I cud make this possible.

I would appreciate all of your info, insight and ideas, good or bad.

The plan wud be to start with a base 3dr EP85-where is the best plae to pick one up? Wat lind of money does a decent one go for?

To fit a cynos engine, 5efe and fit a 4efe head and turbo/ancillaries, hoping that I wud get 200-250bhp, reliable power? How much wud this kind of power cost?

Probably keep the gearbox ratios as is, maybe change final drives?

The biggest thing is getting a front and rear LSD, which i would need really. Is it possible to get ones for the EP85?

There are loads of relatively easy brake upgrades out there, but I would like to see what people think of what suspension I should best use?

The last question I have is Anti-lag?? Has anyone ever ran it on the turbo engines?

There is alot of material and questions in this thread and so I hope people give all their opinions as the more the better for me really..!

It will be next year before I wud start this build but Im just seeing my options now, and trying to get all the info and downfalls now, rather than later..

Big thanks in advance people

Noel from Oz (build wud be happening in Ireland..!)

[StuDoc 72]

You may get one on here as i believe someone was selling one from Holland where he is based although im sure he was scottish i'd imagine its sold now but they do come up.

Im not an expert but im not 100% sure of the benefits of 5e unless u are forging it. you could run that kind of power on a 4e and would save time effort and money. You can easily get 220-230 reliably from a TD04 set up. Cost wise if you have then engine as standard for the turbo kit and brain id say around the £1k mark.

I couldn't help with the gearbox questions although i doubt they made an LSD for the 85 as they didnt have the power to justify it.

Suspension id imagine is totally down to yourself are coilovers suitable for rally or are you better with a spring and shocker set up due to the punishment they will take to allow for a cheap replacement.

[Noel Kelleher]

You may get one on here as i believe someone was selling one from Holland where he is based although im sure he was scottish i'd imagine its sold now but they do come up.

Im not an expert but im not 100% sure of the benefits of 5e unless u are forging it. you could run that kind of power on a 4e and would save time effort and money. You can easily get 220-230 reliably from a TD04 set up. Cost wise if you have then engine as standard for the turbo kit and brain id say around the £1k mark.

I couldn't help with the gearbox questions although i doubt they made an LSD for the 85 as they didnt have the power to justify it.

Suspension id imagine is totally down to yourself are coilovers suitable for rally or are you better with a spring and shocker set up due to the punishment they will take to allow for a cheap replacement.

Thanks for the info, ya Im hoping to pick one up in the uk or ireland so fingers crossed, even if the right one cropped up before my build id def look into it, all the way from here..!!

That is cheap power really. Id like to think that I would spend around 3g on the engine so I should easily get good power so for that money.

With the ratios and diffs, Im guessing I would have to test the car as is on gravel and see how it wud perform. I was reading a post on here about a guy maybe getting LSD's made up for them so just seeing if anyone knows about it

A coilover is a must really for winding it up for the rough roads. I run proflex 3way suspension on my civic rallycar which is adjustable in high and low speed dampning and rebound. Its a hard one to call, hoping someone may know something that would fit in there and work good..

So thanks StuDoc72

[StuDoc 72]

Well aye mate the TD04 is a cheap option and with 3 you could easily get there if you were going to spend that kind of money on the engine id defo forge it and make it future proof that way you can run upwards of 250 bhp without worry.

[morgey]

The only thing with a td04 it would be quite laggy, not sure if it would be ideal for a rally car, im sure a better choice of turbo could easily be obtained within you budget though, just im not the one to advise you of this as I've never looked into it.

[SiCaln]

A k24 would be bloomin good

[Noel Kelleher]

The only thing with a td04 it would be quite laggy, not sure if it would be ideal for a rally car, im sure a better choice of turbo could easily be obtained within you budget though, just im not the one to advise you of this as I've never looked into it.

Good point though morgey, that's why I had asked earlier about anti-lag, and if it was ever fitted. It wud be a hues advantage on a rallycar but cost and wear on turbos, I'm just not sure. So any info on it is appreciated.

[Noel Kelleher]

A k24 would be bloomin good

Can u give me a brief description between a td04 and the k24 SiCaln? Also do torque figures increase much by fitting these turbos?

[SiCaln]

This may help mate

http://www.toyotagtturbo.com/forums/showthread.php?6740-The-Blitz-K24-vs-TD04-difference...-coming-soon-%29

[klyfax]

Throw a Celica 4wd engine, gearbox and axles in? All kinds of setups to engine, gearbox, LSD, brakes...

[Noel Kelleher]

Check out this turbo kit for good power with minimal lag.

http://www.toyotagtt...030#post1093030

There are no LSDs available for the 85s, I have been looking for 4 years now for an alternative to getting ones custom made and found nothing.

That turbo sounds perfect, minimise the lag is the most important thing. With it I might not need anti-lag.

4yrs is a while to be looking so i will take your word for it..! I see you have serious power going thru your 4wd system. How do you find traction in wet conditions or gravel terrain? Wud it be inclined to spin up one or two wheels??

Good info weeJohn, cheers

[Noel Kelleher]

Throw a Celica 4wd engine, gearbox and axles in? All kinds of setups to engine, gearbox, LSD, brakes...

Sounds easy but im sure its not..!! The beauty of keeping runnung gear in the ep85 standard is ease of build.

Is it a crazy big job to do a celica conversion??

[Noel Kelleher]

This may help mate

http://www.toyotagtt....-coming-soon-)

Wow, alot of info and ideas there in that post. K24 seems to suit more than the td04 for my needs, although the kit that weeJohn gives the link to in an earlier post here sounds perfect for track/rally. On the loose if you are sliding you really cant have much lag if any at all..

[Guest Enzo]

Is it a crazy big job to do a celica conversion??

if you have fabrication skillz its not as hard as it sounds, the hardest part is mounting the rear subframe

The plan wud be to start with a base 3dr EP85-where is the best plae to pick one up? Wat lind of money does a decent one go for?

after the tsunami the options are fairly limited, the auctions are almost dead if your looking for a 3door in manual money wise they go for 2-3k

To fit a cynos engine, 5efe and fit a 4efe head and turbo/ancillaries, hoping that I wud get 200-250bhp, reliable power? How much wud this kind of power cost? again around 3k doing it properly

Probably keep the gearbox ratios as is, maybe change final drives?

final drives arnt interchangeable but the gearset is, so you can alter the ratios still the final drive is 4.3 for refrence

The biggest thing is getting a front and rear LSD, which i would need really. Is it possible to get ones for the EP85?

if you can find any that would be minted but nothing feasable has come up yet, its possible though, even though its open diffed at the front and back theres still rakes of grip

[Noel Kelleher]

if you have fabrication skillz its not as hard as it sounds, the hardest part is mounting the rear subframe

The plan wud be to start with a base 3dr EP85-where is the best plae to pick one up? Wat lind of money does a decent one go for?

after the tsunami the options are fairly limited, the auctions are almost dead if your looking for a 3door in manual money wise they go for 2-3k

How much wud this kind of power cost? again around 3k doing it properly

Probably keep the gearbox ratios as is, maybe change final drives?

final drives arnt interchangeable but the gearset is, so you can alter the ratios still the final drive is 4.3 for refrence

even though its open diffed at the front and back theres still rakes of grip

Hi Enzo, thanks for the input.

I will prob wait and hope that an EP85 will pop up on this site for sale maybe around the 2.5k mark. Id prob pay more if the 4e transplant was already done. So if you know of one at any stage please let me know..:-)

The standard ratios on the ep85 are said to be shorter than a normal ep82 for snow/ice purposes, is this true? Any idea wat speed it wud do in each gear as standard?

Its def worth trying this car with the standard 4wd system offroad and then take it from there, they have to grip if you put enough power through the wheels you would think.

[Bean]

on the road mine spins up the front a bit in second when it comes on boost in the dry. running semi slicks on the fronts helped get a bit more grip. with the short gearing 324bhp its a bit of a sling shot through the gears!

[shorty]

Mine was awesome on the na engine when green laning lol could seen to get its stuck and we where flying along some parts where it should of struggled more for grip but just didnt. not tryed her with boost yeat as its still in progress but the stock 4wd is ample id say!

[Starlet__SR]

Better cars to make a rally car out of. Too much hassle, limited parts available. Parts that are available arent cheap. No LSD's available at present. Maybe try a mazda 323 gtx? Nissan pulsar?

Day

[Noel Kelleher]

Better cars to make a rally car out of. Too much hassle, limited parts available. Parts that are available arent cheap. No LSD's available at present. Maybe try a mazda 323 gtx? Nissan pulsar?

Day

I can agree with you there Starlet SR but im a big fan of the starlets, always was and this build mite not work out the best, or cud end up being quite a good little car but I have to try...!! I've built other rallycars before, fwd's, but such a small car with nice turbo power and decent 4wd traction has to be something good.

As for parts go, I have seen the odd 5dr ep85 manual for sale in Ireland over the past year, old people and farmers having them and selling off cheap, some not roadworthy and I'm sure more are out there. I think if I was lucky enough I wud come across one and have all the spares I wud need then.

Fair point though, it's just the 323 and the gti-r have been done before, and this just has not, worth a try.. :-)

[Noel Kelleher]

Mine was awesome on the na engine when green laning lol could seen to get its stuck and we where flying along some parts where it should of struggled more for grip but just didnt. not tryed her with boost yeat as its still in progress but the stock 4wd is ample id say!

Sounds good Shorty, it's not like it wud have bad traction or anything. I'm hoping the fact that the car will have a good suspension setup that it won't have huge amounts of body roll which can cause an inside wheel to spin up when cornering

[Noel Kelleher]

Are the suspension strut size different to a stock ep82?

I see people on here say good things about an "meister r?" coil over that fits them.

Any views on how much windup these have, wat price they are? And wud they suit my needs or not?

Thanks...

[klyfax]

Have anyone ever tried fitting a LSD in a EP85/95 gearbox? A quaife or TRD LSD, from a LSD gearbox?

The teeth-ring (don't know the name) is the same as other FWD cars, bearings likewise...

Or can a non lsd turbo gearbox be fitted to the 4wd system? I know, you need to drill holes and stuff to get the transaxle to fitt.

Getting a Celica in a Starlet is not a problem. It cost some, and you have to make/order some parts thats need to be custom made.

[Mikep82]

correct me if im wrong. you guys always talks about lag.

but when racing is there any lag? if revvin to 8k red line and even shift back to get only 500rpm extra power off the previous gear and still have lag... continuous 4-8k rpm rev range use on the track and still got lag??

Hi revs and a tdo4 hybrid 4paw lsd packed with full suspension pushing +- 270bhp track car will be a monster as i see it. something like the skyline history when they where unbeatable track monsters back in the days.

Seen allot of serious track cars been beaten by a street tune starlet tbh but the car can be so great but the driver is the key for all!

[Johnboy GT]

Are the suspension strut size different to a stock ep82?

I see people on here say good things about an "meister r?" coil over that fits them.

Any views on how much windup these have, wat price they are? And wud they suit my needs or not?

Thanks...

Yes the ep82 is different to the 85. I hear nothing but good things for a road/track setup that the Meister R's offer however rallying will give some abuse and I dont think anyone has done it before so it would be difficult to tell how well it would cope.

If fitting a 4efte i would imagine you could have a front diff in the box however dont hold that as gospel as my knowledge is limited to what i read as i dont own a 85/95.

John

[shorty]

Lol no offence lads but do you not think if we could swap a diff in or fit an lsd oem ep82/91 box we would of done it by now??? The short ratio box will keep you in the powerband so a 4e td04 setup would be fine as for suspension im not sure miesters will be man enough tbh rallying is strenuose on shocks!