Phil Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 WEll guys ive heard Chris (greece) say that he used supra 7mgte valves. (cut down with new ring machined into them to holdspring/retainer i assume) then the valve seat bored out and a port polish behind that. would these Valves be a good start? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/141047673636?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rwdrev Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380611766274?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT im wanting to get these. this any help? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted September 29, 2014 Author Share Posted September 29, 2014 sortof miles out my budget though Lol Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 I would leave the inlet valves alone mate, they are not the problem and are more than capable of 400bhp, however the exhaust valves are well undersized and the ratio between inlet-exhaust diameter proves this.Hence why a lot of people end up running wild cams to overcome the scavenging left behind in the chamber after combustion and diluting the fresh charge. Not only will the larger exhaust valves yield more power but they will also reduce turbo lag. In some instances I've seen where even the inlet valves have been made smaller to accommodate larger exhaust valves. This only stands true for turbo tuning. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
daniel_g Posted September 29, 2014 Share Posted September 29, 2014 Doeant really help you Phil lol but look at post #23 of this thread for inspiration http://www.ukstarletowners.com/topic/36801-russells-ep85/Seen this head in the metal and its a work of art, duno the specs though. All that stuff was sold that head is floating about somewhere. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Krissyb Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Speak to Abbott he has oversized valves in his glanza specially made by super tech for that engine. Makes a huge difference. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) Thanks for all the input. @AdamB, yes this is exactly may thinking. i cant see any negatives with enlarging the inlet valves, but basically the bottom line is simple for me, everytime i look into cam specs for a 1.3 turbo like ours with its meshed cam gears complication, the stock cams are actually ideal! 5efhe cams maybe, but seriously lairy cams with mental overlap isnt right for a road going turbo engine. SO im thinking bigger exhaust valves, 3angle cut and port:polish with stock cams. @KrissyB yes abbott used the supertech ones from the first link i think. just very expensive compared to supra ones! but yes reall depends how much it would cost to get the supra ones cut down and collet neck machined back in. @Daniel_g cheers will have a look here now. I actually have Russlehs turbo kit from that link the Zisco/Greddy td05 14b! would be happy to buy a head already done, but id guess its miles outa my budget. Phil Edited September 30, 2014 by Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
daniel_g Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I was sooo close to buying that 14b kit haha. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 I was sooo close to buying that 14b kit haha. id sell it for 1200 quid lol need money for this head. Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
turbo Grant Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I have that head. Still waiting to get time to fit it lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
daniel_g Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 id sell it for 1200 quid lol need money for this head. PhilI was gonna buy it for just over half that lol in a deal with the 85.I have that head. Still waiting to get time to fit it lolAhh nice one Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 I was gonna buy it for just over half that lol in a deal with the 85.Ahh nice one well glad to say that i payed half that lol, total bargain to be honest. need to do headwork. man its expensive. Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Thanks for all the input. @AdamB, yes this is exactly may thinking. i cant see any negatives with enlarging the inlet valves, but basically the bottom line is simple for me, everytime i look into cam specs for a 1.3 turbo like ours with its meshed cam gears complication, the stock cams are actually ideal! 5efhe cams maybe, but seriously lairy cams with mental overlap isnt right for a road going turbo engine. SO im thinking bigger exhaust valves, 3angle cut and port:polish with stock cams. PhilThis is exactly it, off the top of my head I believe the inlet valves are 29.5mm and exhaust valves are 25mm, giving a size percentage of 84.7%. This is way too low and for a turbo motor the percentage should be around the 93% mark. I worked out you would need roughly 2mm oversized exhaust valves to get close to this figure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/380611766274?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT im wanting to get these. this any help? This is exactly it, off the top of my head I believe the inlet valves are 29.5mm and exhaust valves are 25mm, giving a size percentage of 84.7%. This is way too low and for a turbo motor the percentage should be around the 93% mark. I worked out you would need roughly 2mm oversized exhaust valves to get close to this figure. Adam you see the above link, what mm oversized are the supertech ones? and what diameter are 7mgte valves. i priced getting supra exhaust valves done and its not extortionate really. can have them bought posted from america machine down regrooved for the collets and the head ports enlarged & reseated to suit for less that the price of the supertech ones! Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) Phil those ones listed are what Abbott runs, they were designed by PEC but manufactured by SuperTech. These ones here buddyInlet:http://www.performanceenginecomponents.com/products/product.asp?id=251246 Exhaust:http://www.performanceenginecomponents.com/products/product.asp?id=251245 As you can see they are only 1mm oversized, this takes the exhaust-inlet valve ratio up to 88% which is better but still not perfect imo. I'm sure the lads at Zisco do 1.5mm oversized which will go to 89.8 % and with 2mm oversize you get 91.5 %. The 7MGTE valves are:Intake - 32mmExhaust - 27.5mm Problem is with that going 2.5mm oversized is great, but I don't know how much machining would need doing to accomodate such oversize or even if there's enough meat in the chamber to allow that. I looked into this very heavily when I was going to build my engine, I did also look at the 4AGE stuff as it shares a lot of its components with the E series, but much like the 7MGTE the stems would need cutting and collet grooves re-cut. Just to add it in the 4AGE uses exhaust valve 25.5mm, and SuperTech do 2mm oversized to 27.5mm. The stem lengths are 99.75mm but stem diameter is the same. I've only attacked this by use of changing exhaust valves only and would leave the inlets stock because changing in the inlets would then change the exhaust-inlet valve ratio and you'll end up back at square one. You have to remember that a turbo motor has no problem getting the air in, but it does however have a problem getting the air out because unlike N/A engines which use tuned headers to help reduce scavenging. Edited September 30, 2014 by AdamB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) Phil those ones listed are what Abbott runs, they were designed by PEC but manufactured by SuperTech. These ones here buddy Inlet: http://www.performanceenginecomponents.com/products/product.asp?id=251246 Exhaust: http://www.performanceenginecomponents.com/products/product.asp?id=251245 As you can see they are only 1mm oversized, this takes the exhaust-inlet valve ratio up to 88% which is better but still not perfect imo. I'm sure the lads at Zisco do 1.5mm oversized which will go to 89.8 % and with 2mm oversize you get 91.5 %. The 7MGTE valves are: Intake - 32mm Exhaust - 27.5mm Problem is with that going 2.5mm oversized is great, but I don't know how much machining would need doing to accomodate such oversize or even if there's enough meat in the chamber to allow that. I looked into this very heavily when I was going to build my engine, I did also look at the 4AGE stuff as it shares a lot of its components with the E series, but much like the 7MGTE the stems would need cutting and collet grooves re-cut. Just to add it in the 4AGE uses exhaust valve 25.5mm, and SuperTech do 2mm oversized to 27.5mm. The stem lengths are 99.75mm but stem diameter is the same. I've only attacked this by use of changing exhaust valves only and would leave the inlets stock because changing in the inlets would then change the exhaust-inlet valve ratio and you'll end up back at square one. You have to remember that a turbo motor has no problem getting the air in, but it does however have a problem getting the air out because unlike N/A engines which use tuned headers to help reduce scavenging. I think the 7mgte exhaust valves would be super. 2.5mm oversize!! but sure thats only 1.25mm to the radius so should fit. i think Chrisep70gt (greece) ran supra valves in his machine. whats stock valve length? also are stock 4age valves stiffer than stock 4efte valves. Phil Edited September 30, 2014 by Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted September 30, 2014 Author Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) ps 28quid would get you 4age exhaust valves. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXHAUST-VALVE-TOYOTA-CELICA-COROLLA-4A-GE-16V-1-6-1983-1988-/161163946950?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item25861eabc6 the machine work etc by my calcs would be roughly. cut/regroove for collet 100bore .5mm into head ports 50 so total cost roughly 180quid for oversized 0.5mm Phil Edited September 30, 2014 by Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 ps 28quid would get you 4age exhaust valves. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EXHAUST-VALVE-TOYOTA-CELICA-COROLLA-4A-GE-16V-1-6-1983-1988-/161163946950?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item25861eabc6 the machine work etc by my calcs would be roughly. cut/regroove for collet 100 bore .5mm into head ports 50 so total cost roughly 180quid for oversized 0.5mm Phil plus all your time for porting and polishing obviously. Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 will 4age valve guides be the right length for 4efte valves? Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 ask the peeps who are doing the angle job on the head they can get the guides for you Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 What length/diameter are stock valves? (stem wise not port) (29intake 25exhaust) trying to find another valve that may be interchangeable. currently looking at toyota 3VZE; SOHC 12v Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
turbo Grant Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Might be worth looking into zetec valves. Use the exact same valve guides and the bucket shims are the same diameter as 4e heads Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Might be worth looking into zetec valves. Use the exact same valve guides and the bucket shims are the same diameter as 4e headsWhat are these same sizes? Thanks in advance grantPhil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 Might be worth looking into zetec valves. Use the exact same valve guides and the bucket shims are the same diameter as 4e heads http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FORD-ESCORT-MONDEO-1-8-2-0-ZETEC-EXHAUST-VALVES-x-8-/380603789096?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item589dc0ef28 these seem to match, except ive not seen anything on length.. 96.7 is the Zetec (but 28mm dia) 99.75 is Supra 7mgte (but 27.5mm dia) ??.?? is 4efte (but25mm dia) ??.?? is 4age (but 25.5mm dia) Help with stock valve length please Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 What length/diameter are stock valves? (stem wise not port) (29intake 25exhaust) trying to find another valve that may be interchangeable. currently looking at toyota 3VZE; SOHC 12v Phil Stock valves are : 93.3mm length 5.97mm diameter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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