Brutal MOT result. Advice please!

26 posts in this topic

Hi guys looking for a bit of advice here.

Took my 96 reg glanza for its first MOT since It was imported and its failed miserably..

Reason(s) for failure

  • Exhaust emissions carbon monoxide content at idle excessive (7.3.D.4)
  • Exhaust emissions carbon monoxide content after 2nd fast idle excessive (7.3.D.3)
  • Exhaust emissions Lambda reading after 2nd fast idle outside specified limits (7.3.D.3)
  • Nearside Rear Suspension component mounting prescribed area is excessively corroded (2.4.A.3)
  • Offside Rear Suspension component mounting prescribed area is excessively corroded (2.4.A.3)

Advisory notice item(s)

  • Exhaust emits blue smoke during acceleration and at idle (7.3.A.2c)

 

 

So I've been told it needs some welding done around the suspension components in two small spots and otherwise the undersides looking good. Gutted as this is gonna cost a lot but silver lining it could have been worse!

 

My main worry is the blue smoke - I had the Stem seals replaced when I got the car and thought that was the end of it, the guys at this garage reckon the Valve guides are worn and that might be why but also got me worried by saying if its not that its gonna be Piston rings or the Turbo. they've said if the oil/blue smoke issue is sorted a bit of cat cleaner might save me having to replace the cat and the car will hopefully get through on emissions. 

 

So question time..Assuming its the Valve guides and not the Piston rings or Turbo. Can anyone tell me if this is this a big job?  I'm not gonna be able to do it myself so its looking like its gonna be a specialist but I don't have a clue when it comes to how much work this is.

 

Am I gonna be looking at mostly labour costs or is it gonna be a simple job?

 

This might be a bit of a stretch to ask but has anyone had the work done before or have an Idea of the price they got it done for?

 

Lastly.. I know of a specialist nearby i'm probably gonna end up going to but can anyone give me any recommendations for a place for this kind of work? Im down in the south (southampton) but will travel (a bit) for a better result.

 

 

Appreciate the advice if you have any guys :) 

 

 

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I'm no expert on this but when was the last time it had a full on top to bottom service? This could help reduce the emissions for sure espically if it' a fresh Import or been say around for a while :)

Engine tuner is in your neck of the woods id have a chat with them.

James 

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Thanks bud I'll look them up.

Yeah last serviced about 10k (km) ago but could do with another granted!

 I think the oil burning (blue smoke) has poisoned the cat which is why its failing on emissions there but yeah def worth giving another service after i've sorted that... Anything to give it a helping hand! 

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You can't just change the valve guides, collets, valves and new seals will be needed. They are components which all wear together.

 

That said, I have yet to see a Starlet that doesn't smoke. I remember my first JapFest convoy experience, seeing some of the UK's best Starlets...little puff of blue smoke.

 

I get that they were not excessive at idle, that's pretty bad. It could just be the PCV on the inlet manifold.

 

I would have to see the corrosion to say how bad it is, but you've only got to look at my car's MOT history to have some solace, this is nothing in comparison.

 

Nothing broke that can't be fixed. The most you can do yourself will save you costs in labor.

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Loving the replies already :).

1 hour ago, Calum122 said:

You can't just change the valve guides, collets, valves and new seals will be needed. They are components which all wear together.

Ok mate. Didn't know that at all so really useful thanks. If it turns out to be this do you know if its an extensive job? wondering if there are a lot of parts that would need to come off to get access? My local garage said it was too big a job for them to work on.. fair enough as they're honest with me but I'm wondering if they mean too big or just too much of a pain because they don't know the car. 

 

1 hour ago, Calum122 said:

That said, I have yet to see a Starlet that doesn't smoke. I remember my first JapFest convoy experience, seeing some of the UK's best Starlets...little puff of blue smoke.

Good news again then by the sounds of it! 

 

1 hour ago, Calum122 said:

I get that they were not excessive at idle, that's pretty bad. It could just be the PCV on the inlet manifold.

 

Didn't have a clue about this either mate so thanks again and will look into it. Sorry I probably sound proper dumb but if this was the case would the emissions failure not be related to the blue smoke/oil burning?

 

Appreciate the support bud :thumbsup:

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The Starlet was my first car, never worked on a car before and the first thing I did on this car when I got it home was the headgasket.

I'm not a mechanic, but my god was the Starlet a doddle to work on. The work to the head as outlined is minimal. It's not a hard job at all. There is a lot of work involved, for a newbie don't expect to do it yourself in a few hours. For someone who is expereinced with these cars, or cars in general, then no it's not a big job.

I don't know the specifics of the head rebuild, but the valve guides should be brass, they should be a press in press out job. The head will want reshimming, the valves will simply drop in nothing special there, a valve compressor tool is useful. The head rebuild can be done at home with minimal tools. If you're interested in learning about what it entails, and saving yourself labour, then it's not a hard job. Time consuming but not hard. Throw in lapping new valves as well. Cheap but timely.

That said, get it wrong, and it'll cost you the money. So if you're in doubt, let someone else do the job. I expect the parts would be the costly bit.

Before doing any of this, await to hear from more experience mechanics, but a compression test would be well worth doing to see the condition of the engine.

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Sweet so if someone knows what they're doing its not a big job. What I wanted to hear really! 

To be fair I'd love to do these bits myself but as you say its the time. It'd take me months of trial and error and this cars my daily at the moment.. I've had to nick my poor mums ride to get to and from work so the sooner I can go and give it back to her the better haha.

Appreciate the rest of the advice as well mate. Im still trying to learn as I go along. I'm gonna have to get a second runabout I think so I can take the glanza off the road and really get into doing bits myself with no time limit. 

I'll have a word with an experienced mechanic about it too but all good info man. Always helps to have an idea of whats going on before you take it somewhere and throw money at someone!

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Exhaust emissions is wrong they have tested to UK spec not import tell them to look in the book and go by that it's has a non cat test co2 3.5 hc 1200ppm i no this as have had a few times and contacted dvsa over the matter.

post-8483-0-85393000-1481578658_thumb.jp

Cheers nick :thumbsup:

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The exhaust side valve guides seem to wear when they've done some mileage it doesn't cost mega money probably 5-10 pound each for a new guide to be pressed in then the seats recut to suit, I haven't heard of having to replace valves and collets also.

I had the above done as stated when I rebuilt my engine at 125k and touch wood it seems fine 20k on.

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I think Nicks stating that it is a model produced for foreign markets so VOSA don't have the required guideline figures for the model 

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Nah I'm sure you'll get away with not replacing them, however with drivetrain components, the idea is they wear together. If there is an imperfection in the valve guide, causing oil to seap, then the imperfection will wear itself onto the valve stem. Replacing the valve guide still leaves the valves damaged, which will then cause excessive wear to the valve guide and so on so forth. Collets should be replaced as again they wear together.

 

In practice how you follow this depends. Personally, I'd rather not risk it and just replace the lot together, even if in real world it makes no difference.

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3 hours ago, 00joeindastarb0 said:

I think Nicks stating that it is a model produced for foreign markets so VOSA don't have the required guideline figures for the model 

Yes your right mate has to be put though as non cat test as they cant find 4efte the system it dosnt exist. So have to have a cat for visual check. I've put it through 3 mot's like this every time they have tested to 4efe UK spec I've explained the above and they have gotten the book out and been sorry for not knowing. Usealy saying don't get them often so it gets overlooked. 

Cheers nick :thumbsup: 

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20 hours ago, akyakapotter said:

Exhaust emissions is wrong they have tested to UK spec not import tell them to look in the book and go by that it's has a non cat test co2 3.5 hc 1200ppm i no this as have had a few times and contacted dvsa over the matter.

post-8483-0-85393000-1481578658_thumb.jp

Cheers nick :thumbsup:

Not kicking up a stink here Nick mate, as I agree with you, my car failed twice on emissions last year, and when I showed them this above, they were having none of it, telling me it’s all changed now etc, little fuckers, they still wouldn’t pass it, ended up having to get a sports car welded on in the end.

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I have a sports cat for mot purpose and it flys through emissions if they test it correctly ie not fast idle 1 2 ect just the co2 and hydro carbons for non cat test :thumbsup:

Cheers nick. 

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No way!

So they've done the emissions test to a UK starlet standard?

Just to be sure...  Are you guys saying it should be tested as though it didnt even have a catalyctic converter? like a car made pre 95? or it should have been tested using default limits like lowest right hand box in the diagram?

It flew through its first MOT with just one advisory about play in the steering rack and nothing on emissions.

do you guys think its likely If i get it retested to the correct standard it might get through on emissions then?

If thats the case it'd just be the welding needed which also didnt show on the last MOT (which I found a bit odd). The MOT tester said its only a small bit of corrosion so could have been missed...

What do you guys think about the idea of just taking to a different MOT tester and explaining the emissions thing prior to them testing it. Could they miss the corrosion and pass the car? (Thinking purely to get her back on the road fast here not thinking leave the corrosion to get worse afterwards haha)

 

ta again lads

Edited by Jwood91

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If you have too change valve guides, personally i would rebuild the whole engine while the heads off.

 

Rust is a pain, most mot garages will just do a bodge job fixing it. Youll need it properly cut out and replaced with some decent preventative actions on it. 

Edited by Ollieh17

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I agree its probably worth changing all components at once for the sake of them wearing together but good to know its not vital if not possible.

Dude I wish I could rebuild the engine and give this car what it deserves but thats just not possible for me. I can barely afford necessary repairs and Im trying to learn but my mech knowledge is minimal haha.

thanks for the advice on the rust, The cars been undercoated but I wanna make sure these spots are sorted long term and not just put a plaster over the cracks.

Wouldn't mind it being road legal in the meantime though!

Edited by Jwood91

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A lot of sellers know a guy, my car sailed through the MOT in the month prior to me buying it, and it's a total wreck. Both sills rotten, the floor rotten, the wheel bearings shot brakes shot. MOT doesn't mean sod all I'm afraid.


As for the undercoating, unless done upon import by someone who knows what they're doing, how are you not sure they didn't just paint over the rust, that won't fix the problem. 

 

The issue I got, is if you can barely afford the necessary repairs, do you really think a 90's jap car is for you. 

 

I don't say that light heartedly, you've only got to see what happens to these cars in a light accident and you'd think twice about driving the car. If there is something wrong with these cars, they're a literal death trap. Don't be fooled by the tin foil of a chassis, these cars crumple in no time at all. My advice would be to take it off the road and just double check everything is solid. But then I haven't driven my car since buying it four years ago for that reason, so maybe don't listen to me lol

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Maybe worth cutting your losses and selling it on. Unfortunately rust and engine work are two things you can't cheap out on. Get the rust sorted properly and should get through a MOT. Can at least drive it then

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That MOT emissions chart is out of date.

90% of starlets burn oil to some degree, thats what will be showing up in the emissions test.

The standard CATs on these are well worn out by now, that wont be helping matters.

Removable sports CAT fitted into the exhaust is probably the way to go.

Try that before spending thousands on an engine rebuild and turbo rebuild.

We need to see pictures of the suspension component mounting to offer accurate advise. 

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I appreciate what you're trying to say but I'll sell my soul to fund this stuff there's no way this cars being moved on!  maybe its a bit ambitous to have it as a daily car though I admit.

I've been told by the guys who did the MOT the underside is great aside from these two spots so i'm not too worried about them tbh. I'm not gonna cheap out on that or engine work it might just take a bit of time to get it done is all.

So sounds like I'm not gonna get through on the emissions that way.. I think im gonna look into getting a sports cat and the welding done to get back on the road and then as soon as I can, start doing things like a compression test and replacing any vitals.

1 hour ago, daniel_g said:

90% of starlets burn oil to some degree,

Yeah saw that mentioned above and to be fair I didnt think mine was too bad. Yeah I get exhaust fumes for a while on startup but its freezing atm so I didnt think anything of it. didnt look particularly blue either but I could be wrong. I'd been checking the oil pretty frequently and the levels didnt seem to drop. had to put some in once I think. I get no engine management lights, no oil light, I get all 3 boost lights when accelerating. the cars done 130k (km) and feels great so I was suprised at how much I was being told needs to be done. 

 

Am I looking at something like this? https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/2-50mm-Magnaflow-Universal-High-Flow-Sports-Catalytic-Converter-200-Cell-59954/1830522472

 

any suggestions for any others?

 

cheers again

Edited by Jwood91

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Yes that’s it but make sure your exhaust pipe underneath is 2” wide, also make sure there’s no little cracks or holes in the exhaust too. :thumbsup:

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On 20/01/2018, 17:53:54, Calum122 said:

It's a 96 spec so it won't be a non cat test.

It will be due to the car being a gray import you have to test them as stated in the manual 

regardless if it has cat due to emissions standerds are different in japan

 

i also a mot tester for the dvsa 

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