Emanage vs FCD

[Weyro]

If you want to run 1 bar of boost, on a standard ECU these are your two main options

For the sake of this post lets compare tuning with a Greddy FCD vs Greddy Emanage Blue.

Lets assume the stock ECU cuts at around 0.85bar or 4.15v, so to run 1bar you need to get around this. Both devices do this in the same way, they clamp the voltage so that the ECU never see's more than 4.1v.

This means that when you are running 1bar, the ECU actually thinks you are running around 0.8bar.

This presents 2 problems, the ECU will only be injecting enough fuel for 0.8bar, and will only be retarding the timing enough for 0.8bar.

In regards to fueling, both need set up with a Wideband.

With the FCD you usually add an adjustable FPR to the car, and increase the pressure till you are getting your desired AFR at WOT, as a result you make the car run richer across the whole rev range, and when off boost.

With the Emanage you have an Injector map which can increase(or decrease) the injector Duty by %, and so you get your Desired AFR by adjusting this at various RPM and load points.

This allows you to maintain the stock AFR's at anything below 0.8bar, this is good for fuel consumption among other things.

In regards to timing.

The FCD has no control of the Ignition timing, so although you now have the correct amount of fuel to run 1bar boost, you are still running on 0.8bar timing settings. (Which may be too advance for the higher pressure, and cause Knocking, which is bad.)

With the Emanage you have an Ignition map which can increase(or decrease) the Ignition timing by %, and so you can adjust the timing to get best power, but avoid knock.

Now assuming what i have said is correct, why do people seem to think FCD's are so bad, surely if you get the fueling set, and there is no knock. Its no more dangerous than the Emanage?

[Jhandy]

hey bud, i have just installed a jam fcd, fpr, and wideband to my car, so far my fuel pressure vac off, is set to 2.7 bar, i still have to take it on a run yet, to see what the wideband reads, but before that it was set to 2.4 bar vac off, and wideband read on full throttle 12.9, which is still to lean for this, i have been speaking to adam b and he guided me through everything, he said on full throttle, mine should read inbetween 11,6-12.2 which is good for me, but im only running .85 bar boost, so yours may be slighty different as your want to run a bar of boost, but aslong as you have a wideband, and it reads that the fueling is fine there shouldnt be a problem

[Beastmode panda]

My glanza is running 225bhp at 1 bar of boost on an fcd and oem ecu.

Fuck aftermarket ecu's unless you're forged, what's the point. You pay like £500 PLUSS fitting and mapping for a fucking ecu just to gain like 7 more bhp. Absolutely pointless.

This is the reason (aky take note) that I don't have an uprated ecu, cause it's a waste of money for not many gains 'imo'.

[akyakapotter]

Rbz how did you no I was going to post lol if I was closer I'd let you take mine out then tell me it's not worth the money better mileage out of it engine runs so smooth boost is so smooth worth every penny

Edited July 6, 2013 by akyakapotter

[5T4R7ET N/A]

as said above its not just about ultimate power. i would like to see a emanage vs fcd @ 1 bar dyno graph though.

when you have emanage you can play with more variables to make it suit everyday driving without compromising anything.

[Weyro]

Yea i know that the manage can be fine tuned for more smooth results, but in just talking about the fact everyone tells you that an fcd is a ticking time bomb, yet I've been running 242bhp on one for over a year

Totally agree rob

[TurboTobz]

They can run a car to a fairly good standard but I'd never consider it anything more than a temporary measure. My idea was forge it get everything how I'm happy and map it, and try and leave it. You need to consider that your expensive shiny manifold is being stressed with high egt's etc...

But I know some places do map emanage for very cheap I know people that have bought emb and had it mapped for £250 area incl buying the ECU!

Edited July 6, 2013 by TurboTobz

[TurboTobz]

*. Repost ignore

Edited July 6, 2013 by TurboTobz

[Beastmode panda]

It's still too much money imo.

Like I said, unless you're forged it's absolutely pointless to spend the money buying an ecu and a minimum of £250 for mapping.

Sure, maybe the ride is smoother ect, but for the prices of an ecu, fitting and mapping id expect it to ride like im driving a fucking hummer!

Mapping has to be one of the biggest cons out there in the tuning world, besides fuel.

[daniel_g]

Im going to sit in the P&P corner lol. I had a Mines one in the GT on TD04, and it was fucking quality.

Only bought it because it was as cheap as fuck, so cheap i felt sorry for the lad lol.

[TurboTobz]

It's still too much money imo.

Like I said, unless you're forged it's absolutely pointless to spend the money buying an ecu and a minimum of £250 for mapping.

Sure, maybe the ride is smoother ect, but for the prices of an ecu, fitting and mapping id expect it to ride like im driving a fucking hummer!

Mapping has to be one of the biggest cons out there in the tuning world, besides fuel.

Fusion start at £150 for emb...

Its not only for power increase though, it's for reliability, makes your engine more safer, and its more than likely to last longer.

You say it's too expensive but it's gotta be cheaper than you spent on your wheels/cage/etc, it's come down in price a lot too, and it's going to show more difference than most of them bits, and you'll save a small amount on fuel, less chance of cracking manifolds, blowing/melting engines etc etc

It's expensive but it's not a con!

don't take that the wrong way I'm not having a pop. It's well worth it, but better off running safe boost until you have a engine your happy to keep at that spec for a while.

[Beastmode panda]

Of course there are advantages, 100% not disputing that.

Just saying what I think, I personally think it's way too much money for what it is.

All they do for mapping is adjust some shit on a computer on the rolling road and get paid a shit load of money for it.

It's not the fact that I don't want to run an emb and a nice map cause i'd love to, i'm just saying I could never justify it and in my eyes it's pointless unless you're forged. But that's just my opinion..

I duno, I say run what the fuck you like and don't watch what other people do ahah.

[TurboTobz]

Depends if you want something sub standard or something that stands out a bit I guess. Mappings a time consuming art, people spend years learning it if it paid shit no one would bother, a tradesman can charge similar to what a mapper costs.

Also you have to factor in the cost dyno hire, which costs £50-75 for power runs alone. Years ago when I first had a glanza £500 was a good price for mapping!

The 240 area most things pull on a fpr/FCD soon becomes very boring, and you'll find you want to push bigger competition and show up the big powered heavy cars.

[Broony]

They are only a ticking time bomb as people dont set them up correctly!! they were heavily used in japan on most turbo applications not just starlets

[Weyro]

I'm running a fuel controller now, which is just a fancy FCD, but f i ever went forged I'd definitely buy emanage.

[AdamB]

They are both not ideal. All your doing is fooling the standard ecu, which ever route you choose. Its never ever going to guarantee engine safety.

The only advantage the emanage or any piggyback for that matter has over the FCD + FPR route is that the ignition timing can be adjusted, this is where power, fuel economy, engine smoothness is won or lost.

Providing the FCD + FPR is setup correctly I would take that any day over a monkey from kwik fit mapping an emanage. Conclusion is, the person that tunes it needs to have an understanding of why, how and what these methods do.

The best way is to run a full standalone system, which is normally way out of most peoples budgets or people just aren't prepared to pay for it.

Edited July 7, 2013 by AdamB

[Pikey009]

Stand alones are expensive i totally agree but i'm a big believer in getting everything mapped in correctly. Changing pretty much anything on a turbo'd car such as the induction, exhaust, ignition or fueling without it being set up properly is asking for trouble. Not only are there power and torque gains but it's how all of the mods tie together and how it delivers the power and torque. You could be running a higher headline performance figure than someone whos using a stand alone but they would be making peak performance lower down the rev range making them much faster in the real world.

I had a Motec M4 Pro on my GT4 and it completely transformed the car from a pretty unsafe 260ish with flat spots everywhere to a perfectly smooth driveable 300 with absolutly no changes to any mods. When i find a Glanza i want, the first thing ill be doing is going stand alone. Equally though something is only as good as the person mapping it so find someone decent is an obvious one.

[Pikey009]

Oh and thought i'd add in that my mate had a GT4 the same time as me, was running almost identical mods but he had a front mount and i was still running the top mount charge cooler. We were both running the Motec system and his headline figure was around 15bhp more than mine so we had a play and he was nowhere near. Show's that there are muppets out there who claim they can map but you end up getting ripped off even when buying a £900 unit!

[Djaniero]

Sorry to thread jack, but I thought I'd post here instead of making a new thread.

I'm going to be collecting parts shortly, to either run 1 bar on my et9 setup, or maybe even the td04 route (but at lower boost say 0.8 bar).

I was just wondering whether an fcd and rrfpr would suffice or would I be better off with the emanage...especially with the td04 setup?

Is there any major differences in terms of reliability and driveability between the emanage setup and rrfpr/fcd ?

The car is just a weekend toy, so won't be used daily. But I would like it to be reliable and driven hard from time to time.

Thanks