cheers chops im able to do flat welding pretty good from back in the day with the stick welder on the gates we made but now those pipes is another story altogether i keep forgetting the length and angle . i start a weld pulling and up pushing the other end , really annoying habit ther that i picked up now mist get rid of it and keep it 1 motion i still have loads of gas left 3/4 bottle to, so will practice the pipes indeed there tricky for me