jordan walker Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Wanting as much advice or opinions as I can get because I can't find much on it on this forum and I'm adamant that there's loads of gains to be had from them!I am rebuilding my engine after it span a shell and while it's all apart I'm thinking fuck it why not just go the whole hog! I know that there's people who will go against it and say the stock cams are more than good enough and I agree I ran 300 ponys on a td04 hybrid and it was great but I'm sure that there's more to be had than that with cams and headwork.Wether it be that you want to sit at a set of lights with your daft body kitted starlet with a side exit exhaust and a proper lumpy idle intimidating the life out of the vxr owner next to you or that you want to increase that spool time on your td04 or you think nah man my starlets a beast when the boost kicks in I want some proper lairy cams to give it that little bit more up top. I know there is people that want them and get put off them I've seen the threads started that just fizzle out and get forgotten about for whatever reason what I want to know is have people went for them? what they've gone for? what they're like? Also has anyone got any basic info on cams in general? Any decent reading material they would care to share? I've had a mooch on here and the web for basic info on cams and found drive and drabs and know that the wrong cams can proper ruin your fun so don't just want to go out and buy the first set of cams that I see but without understanding them that's what's going to going to happen lol Again all info and opinions are more than welcome 👍 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
00joeindastarb0 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I think one thing that goes against them is that one cam is geared off the other making it harder to dial them in and get the full benefits. Couldn't say this is a definite reason as I haven't looked into it much myself.As you said the stock cams do perform well and seem to have adequate lift and duration for a fast road car. I can't recall any aftermarket application getting staggering results for the investment.Would be good if we could get some comparison graphs up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 (edited) In my opinion the benefits of a better turbo versus a better cam setup the better turbo wins.Stock Cams are good for what they are, and the money spent on a Garrett gt2860 or better will yield better results for the money That's not to say that they aren't useful just usually if someone is looking a step up for a td04 then that's the bests route to take. If you have the money to do both - then knock yourself out Phil Edited February 9, 2017 by Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jordan walker Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 In my opinion the benefits of a better turbo versus a better cam setup the better turbo wins.Stock Cams are good for what they are, and the money spent on a Garrett gt2860 or better will yield better results for the money That's not to say that they aren't useful just usually if someone is looking a step up for a td04 then that's the bests route to take. If you have the money to do both - then knock yourself out Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jordan walker Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 I think one thing that goes against them is that one cam is geared off the other making it harder to dial them in and get the full benefits. Couldn't say this is a definite reason as I haven't looked into it much myself.As you said the stock cams do perform well and seem to have adequate lift and duration for a fast road car. I can't recall any aftermarket application getting staggering results for the investment.Would be good if we could get some comparison graphs up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akyakapotter Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Get in contact with Mike at td as they sell there own cams I'm sure he will give you all the info you are after.Cheers nick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
daniel_g Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Was a build on here last year and the dude took his big spec cams back out to get better driveability. Cant mind the username bht it was a white GT mapped by TD. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 You say that money is better spent on a gt28 setup but it's a hell of a lot more pricey going for a gt28 than it is a set of cams when you've already got a td04 setup sat there you would have to get a mani a down pipe and a turbo and oil and water lines all over again and the price of a second hand td04 kit isn't what they used to be these days neither so you wouldn't see much in return of selling that and upgradingI mean don't get me wrong I've toyed with the idea of a gt28 a lot I'm not just arguing with you for the sake of it lol I don't even know what gains your going to get out of cams I keep reading in random threads 20bhp here or 40bhp there from cams but I don't know where these quotes are coming from when there's so little info on cams it could be a cheap alternative to a bigger/better/expensive turbo or they could be a massive waste of time it's something I'm willing to take a punt at if I can learn some stuff about themI'll only answer the money side of this for now I think - Don't under estimate the cost of cams, the arent a drop in item.The gt28 genuine is 350ish 2nd hand and swapping mani/downpipe flanges maybe another 100/150 or just buy a straight fit housing vf/ihi/td flangesWhich is as cheap as a set of cams even without getting into tolerances/uprated springs/seat pressure/port polish/new valves/larger valves/solid lifters/adjustable pulley - which are all something you may want to do at the same time.Myself and another local here both dynod our cammed 4e's last winter same day same dyno etc he made 270/280 I think and I made 370/380. Similar boost he was running td04 I was running Garrett.Did cams help us both make decent power yeah for sure. But biggest difference was turbo.Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jordan walker Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 I'll only answer the money side of this for now I think - Don't under estimate the cost of cams, the arent a drop in item.The gt28 genuine is 350ish 2nd hand and swapping mani/downpipe flanges maybe another 100/150 or just buy a straight fit housing vf/ihi/td flangesWhich is as cheap as a set of cams even without getting into tolerances/uprated springs/seat pressure/port polish/new valves/larger valves/solid lifters/adjustable pulley - which are all something you may want to do at the same time.Myself and another local here both dynod our cammed 4e's last winter same day same dyno etc he made 270/280 I think and I made 370/380. Similar boost he was running td04 I was running Garrett.Did cams help us both make decent power yeah for sure. But biggest difference was turbo.PhilI was always under the impression that gt28 kits are a lot more expensive than that you had one up for sale for £2500 a few month ago didn't you? but anyway if you can go gt28 for that sort of money then I can't really argue my case there any further lolAs for the power figures it doesn't sound like the cams helped make you any power at all... Unless normally a gt28 makes less than that? That aside thigh because obviously they're just numbers do you feel like the cams gave you any better drivability or any better of a top end kick? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Socks Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Cams on turbo cars always do much less then n/a cars. All you going to do on these cars is move the power band higher up. Now obv, if you have a turbo, that wants feeding and will be on song, higher up thats great.But on a td04 or any variant. Not worth the money and the hassle imo. You 'll get more benefits spending money elsewhere. Turbo is a big one. a GTX2860 Ball Bearing is a £1200-1500 turbo.But spools like a TD04 and yet can do over 400bhp. My 2 Cents Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jordan walker Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Cams on turbo cars always do much less then n/a cars. All you going to do on these cars is move the power band higher up. Now obv, if you have a turbo, that wants feeding and will be on song, higher up thats great.But on a td04 or any variant. Not worth the money and the hassle imo. You 'll get more benefits spending money elsewhere. Turbo is a big one. a GTX2860 Ball Bearing is a £1200-1500 turbo.But spools like a TD04 and yet can do over 400bhp. My 2 Cents When you say move the power band up surely the standard cams are made to produce power every where so if you put cams in and move the power band up that takes the first 4 or 5 k where your not making power and utilizes it up top where you've got boost this making more power? From the small bits that I've read here and there that's my understanding of it? So even with a smaller turbo like a td04 you would still get gains?I mean the latest revision of Speedvision cams on there website claim as much as 45bhp on a 5e surely there's truth behind that i can't imagine them just making it up Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 my 2c keep stock cams as usually most guys do0nt go above 7500rpm anyways just go biggervalves and a full port jobby with an aftermarket intake manifold as the oem 4efte 1 sucks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jordan walker Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 my 2c keep stock cams as usually most guys do0nt go above 7500rpm anyways just go biggervalves and a full port jobby with an aftermarket intake manifold as the oem 4efte 1 sucks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
adzy Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Stevens glanza went from 260 to 300 on a td04 with just cams.However he said it was a lot more lag, and very sore on fuel. So prob worse for driveability Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jordan walker Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Stevens glanza went from 260 to 300 on a td04 with just cams.However he said it was a lot more lag, and very sore on fuel. So prob worse for driveability Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Calum122 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 So to reiterate what Socks said. Cams play a bigger role on na than turbos. And when you think of why this is, it's obvious. You swap the cams to alter the amount of fuel and air that enters into the combustion chamber. On a turbo car you simply turn the boost up. The same effect is made and it hasn't cost you a penny. Obviously when you reach the threshold of that turbi then you need to change tact. But ultimately the gains for the cost just aren't feasible. With an Na you are limited to tuning options cor cost. And cams then start to look like a reasonable alternative. I think you are bettee of sorting out the valve sizes first before cams. This will make it easier for the turbo gases to get into and out of the turbo charger. This makes spool and performance better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jordan walker Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) I personally can not see it been cheaper to go for a gt28 I've mooched about and gt28's are quite simply a fortune and that's without a mani and down pipe because the more I think about it how close my td04 is to not fitting with the current wepr ram horn setup (you can just to say get the oil filter off from where it's situated it fits perfect) there's not a chance you could modify that to fit a gt28.The costs that are thought of with cams the more you look into it arnet that bad... Sort of anyway because I will be doing it all myself with help from friends so I won't be paying for laybour or anything... Springs will be new standard ones (which should be replaced anyway about now if you go off the loose elasticity thinking) I thought I would have to use uprated springs but you don't..... As for the clearances they're well over due been done on my engine anyway and I imagine that they are a mile out anyway so that's going to cost me regardless but the info I've found on them they don't need to be solid buckets neither like I thought they would....The only dodgy bit I've found is timing certain cams up but with a lot of patience and the right equipment I'm sure I can manage that...From what I've found on tgtt as I'm not raising the rev limit in fine with just refreshing everything (which like I've said needs doing anyway) and just dropping the cams in (obviously not as easy as dropping them in but you get where im going with it) I'm slowly finding bits and bobs here and there but the right ones with the right tune give really good gains Edited February 10, 2017 by jordan walker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ollieh17 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Bigger bhp number doesn't mean a 'faster' car Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jordan walker Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Bigger bhp number doesn't mean a 'faster' carYes I know.... But taking the standard cams out that where designed for an all round power delivery on the standard car and replacing them with ones that are more suited for making your power and mid to high up the revs will when you have a bigger turbo that is making power mid to high up the revs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) I was always under the impression that gt28 kits are a lot more expensive than that you had one up for sale for £2500 a few month ago didn't you? but anyway if you can go gt28 for that sort of money then I can't really argue my case there any further lolAs for the power figures it doesn't sound like the cams helped make you any power at all... Unless normally a gt28 makes less than that? That aside thigh because obviously they're just numbers do you feel like the cams gave you any better drivability or any better of a top end kick?Mine was a complete kit thoughVery fresh gt2860rs Upgraded v band stainless exhaust housingGenuine tial waste-gateUpgraded WEPR stainless manifold FittingsAnd a full stainless exhaustAnyways was just giving my opinion, not saying I'd give away my cams I love how they drive on track and having power very clearly 4K+ does make gear decisions easy lolPhil Edited February 10, 2017 by Phil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jordan walker Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Mine was a complete kit thoughVery fresh gt2860rs Upgraded v band stainless exhaust housingGenuine tial waste-gateUpgraded WEPR stainless manifold FittingsAnd a full stainless exhaustAnyways was just giving my opinion, not saying I'd give away my cams I love how they drive on track and having power very clearly 4K+ does make gear decisions easy lolPhilWhat turbo are you running with your cams mate? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 What turbo are you running with your cams mate?Gt2860rsPhil Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gorganl2000 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) there are turbo gtx/gt options to fit the stock Subaru flanges -more costlyhttp://www.atpturbo.com/root/releases/release063005.htm -cheaperhttp://shop.mambatek.com/main.sc do a search for subaru turbos..many varieties in gtx28 series (60, 63, 67, 71, etc) even on ebay you find mambahttp://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=mamba+subaru+gtx2863r+turbo&_sacat=0 Edited February 10, 2017 by gorganl2000 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jordan walker Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 there are turbo gtx/gt options to fit the stock Subaru flanges -more costlyhttp://www.atpturbo.com/root/releases/release063005.htm -cheaperhttp://shop.mambatek.com/main.sc do a search for subaru turbos..many varieties in gtx28 series (60, 63, 67, 71, etc) even on ebay you find mambahttp://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.TRS0&_nkw=mamba+subaru+gtx2863r+turbo&_sacat=0Cheers dude, that's something I might look into never even thought you would be able to get them with suby flanges on them but like I say I'd have to check how much room I've got first with my current turbo set up because it is tight Quote Link to post Share on other sites
daniel_g Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Found that thread where Jamie took out the 282s and put in some 244s instead.http://www.ukstarletowners.com/topic/57173-jamies-335bhp-white-gt/page-15Maybe worth a quick look, nobody seems to really rate starlet cams. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.