The Toffinator Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 I agree to all the mods above as said before barring the RARB. As a cheap basic mod for a standardish car yes i agree it will work, But if you have coilovers and braces etc i think they promote too much oversteer if driven very hardI have had mine on track twice now in the wet and dry, And there wasnt one instance where it understeered. If you were on the very limit it would oversteer first regardless of what you did.I was also taken out by the scrutineer of the track day (ICE Driver instructor from sweden, mental driver) And he helped set the suspension up to dial out oversteer.I also said to him the fact i have a RARB sat at home and he said he would never fit it, why make the car worse on the limit! Possibly just my car, but if i was going to take advice from someone it would be him.... TT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
klyfax Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 My car has BC coilovers, Brace front and rear, poly all the way. And a RARB. It has a slightly oversteer on very wet road or track. Quite fun to drive. On dry it understeers when pressed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Broony Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) First I've ever heard someone say that. Maybe you have a problem elsewhere? No problem, just a waste of £150. coil overs and cusco braces all round, didn't say my car handles badly but suggsted that the RARB doesn't make any difference for me? Not at all for me. Had Meisters, 24mm FARB, OEM front brace, 3 point rear brace fitted to the GT. And coming from the NA I could immediately feel the need for RARB. Fitted it a week later and now it handles awesomely! if it works for you then bonus wish i could feel the difference! I agree to all the mods above as said before barring the RARB. As a cheap basic mod for a standardish car yes i agree it will work, But if you have coilovers and braces etc i think they promote too much oversteer if driven very hard I have had mine on track twice now in the wet and dry, And there wasnt one instance where it understeered. If you were on the very limit it would oversteer first regardless of what you did. I was also taken out by the scrutineer of the track day (ICE Driver instructor from sweden, mental driver) And he helped set the suspension up to dial out oversteer. I also said to him the fact i have a RARB sat at home and he said he would never fit it, why make the car worse on the limit! Possibly just my car, but if i was going to take advice from someone it would be him.... TT The other thing ive noticed toff, is that no japanese brand offers rear anti rollbar and if the likes of zep, jam and HRF never ran one then maybe theres a reason for it?? i just feel that with uprated bushes and coil overs at the rear the rear beam does the same job of weight transfer? Edited August 8, 2013 by Broony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 The other thing ive noticed toff, is that no japanese brand offers rear anti rollbar and if the likes of zep, jam and HRF never ran one then maybe theres a reason for it?? i just feel that with uprated bushes and coil overs at the rear the rear beam does the same job of weight transfer?Cusco offer a RARB. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jonnygt Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Duuude you can't keep dropping the rear camber line and not tell us how it's done lol I was thinking that! How do you camber the rear? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikey4410 Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 its a special piece of lengthy engineering undertaken by myself. not something that can be done normally Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Broony Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) Cusco offer a RARB. LInk for this? http://www.cusco.co.jp/en/catalog/pdf_catalogue_suspension_parts_3.html cant see it listed in their catalogue , forgive me if I'm blind lol but ive had a good hunt? Edited August 8, 2013 by Broony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) LInk for this? http://www.cusco.co.jp/en/catalog/pdf_catalogue_suspension_parts_3.html cant see it listed in their catalogue , forgive me if I'm blind lol but ive had a good hunt? Here mate. http://www.rhdjapan.com/cusco-sway-bar-rear-toyota-altezza-mark-ii-starlet-19723 Don't come as a kit though like the whiteline ones, but drop links and a couple exhaust brackets can easily be had. I'll be guessing to say that most JDM demo cars used cusco suspension gear seeing as they are highly regarded as the best manufacturer in the world by many. Edited August 8, 2013 by AdamB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rmsnoel Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 Lol at the placebo affect broony, I think your just not drivin fast enough Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Toffinator Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 (edited) I think the people with RARB arent driving fast enough and just think it feels nice and direct, Which to be fair i believe may be true as it might feel nicer but on the limit i think they would just plant you in a fieldGet it on a track and fling it into a corner going too fast, they oversteerRight speed and lift off, the oversteer.Going quick into a roundabout etc, they oversteerIf i had a RARB there would be no way i would have done the laptimes i did that sprint day. Personal opinion mabye and its possibly just my car but i was looked at like i was stupid by a rally driver and his team when i said i wanted to stiffen the rear with a RARBThis is AFTER we stiffened the front right up on the coilovers and softened the rear, it was still very neutral with a bit of oversteer If someone would like to prove me otherwise and take me on track and show me what there like, My RARB is still going to be sat in the shed unfitted On that note anybody want to buy a whiteline RARB? Lol Edited August 8, 2013 by The Toffinator Quote Link to post Share on other sites
daniel_g Posted August 8, 2013 Share Posted August 8, 2013 What about the EP85s that come with a RARB as standard, surely that a good thing ? Or is that a different set of rules for 4wd ? Just curious what the pros and cons are. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
har-vey Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 the best way to drive a front wheel drive car is to have the rear light, it just takes skill not to let it go. if you watch a lot of the BTCC cars are very light on the rear. at the end of the day its down to driver style, if you dont like over steer DONT get a RARB. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nanglebadger Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 a good seat and a harness completely changes how in control you feel. this will give the biggest impact on how your car can be pushed into the bends totally agree with this. all the braces in the world wont stop u falling out of a stock seat. Phil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AlancEP82 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 thinking about making up a brace to go from upper front seatbelt mounting the the rear seatbelt mounting both sides along with a floor bar,have upper and lower front struts,c pillar,rear strut brace,front arb car handles fairly well I think Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Amjad Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I think the people with RARB arent driving fast enough and just think it feels nice and direct, Which to be fair i believe may be true as it might feel nicer but on the limit i think they would just plant you in a field Get it on a track and fling it into a corner going too fast, they oversteer Right speed and lift off, the oversteer. Going quick into a roundabout etc, they oversteer If i had a RARB there would be no way i would have done the laptimes i did that sprint day. Personal opinion mabye and its possibly just my car but i was looked at like i was stupid by a rally driver and his team when i said i wanted to stiffen the rear with a RARB This is AFTER we stiffened the front right up on the coilovers and softened the rear, it was still very neutral with a bit of oversteer If someone would like to prove me otherwise and take me on track and show me what there like, My RARB is still going to be sat in the shed unfitted On that note anybody want to buy a whiteline RARB? Lol I drove both my cars hard on track through the corners and find it very well balanced to be honest! It could have a bit of lift off oversteer on the limit but this is what I like, it helps to control the car's line through the corners! a good seat and a harness completely changes how in control you feel. this will give the biggest impact on how your car can be pushed into the bends Very true, been using a Recaro the past few days and I feel so much more confident slamming it through corners! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nanglebadger Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 ^^^ZEP made bars that go from the upper b-pillar mount to the upper c-pillar mount. only ever seen one set and if i could steal them i would! Phil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WallaceGlanza Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 I think the people with RARB arent driving fast enough and just think it feels nice and direct, Which to be fair i believe may be true as it might feel nicer but on the limit i think they would just plant you in a field Get it on a track and fling it into a corner going too fast, they oversteer Right speed and lift off, the oversteer. Going quick into a roundabout etc, they oversteer If i had a RARB there would be no way i would have done the laptimes i did that sprint day. Personal opinion mabye and its possibly just my car but i was looked at like i was stupid by a rally driver and his team when i said i wanted to stiffen the rear with a RARB This is AFTER we stiffened the front right up on the coilovers and softened the rear, it was still very neutral with a bit of oversteer If someone would like to prove me otherwise and take me on track and show me what there like, My RARB is still going to be sat in the shed unfitted On that note anybody want to buy a whiteline RARB? Lol Little light fwd cars like ours will always have lift off oversteer regardless off the RARB being fitted or not. My car seemed very neutral on track once the tyres were upto temperature - before that there was a bit of oversteer as the rears naturally take longer to warm up. I do have a thicker front arb too (and coilovers, braces, poly bushes etc). A bit of oversteer is not a bad thing either as it gives you more adjustability than persistant understeer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
morgey Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Biggest handling difference hands down for me was LSD. Nothing else comes close to the added cornering speed that you get from having one.Rarb was a load of tosh. Maybe if you dont have coilovers you would see the affects more but fitting one after having them made no difference imo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mad Mike EP82 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 Tyre choice should be first on the list then think about the other stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pick1 Posted August 9, 2013 Share Posted August 9, 2013 U checked out then ultra braces there good Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RobSR Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Get the front setup right, then worry about the back. Like said tyres aswell. Worried about lift off oversteer? dont come off throttle mid corner lol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mad Mike EP82 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 lift off oversteer is driver error not car setup Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Toffinator Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 I do agree with what your saying lads but even under braking etc they try to oversteer, yes it is good but last thing you want to be doing is trying to fight oversteer all the time Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mad Mike EP82 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 I do agree with what your saying lads but even under braking etc they try to oversteer, yes it is good but last thing you want to be doing is trying to fight oversteer all the timeWhat's tyres are you using mate? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The Toffinator Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) I was using rainsports all round dude, wet and dry day. Lap times were consistent top times against many very fast cars, (Laptimes are in my build thread).It wasnt a problem the oversteer if anything it was good especially when we did the damp day. Under very hard braking and through the chicane the back was always trying to come out.Next sprint im going to lower the car a bit more and have another fiddle with the damping, see if i can make it neutralish with a bit of oversteer, This was advice given to me by the tech guy there and andrew mckenna (Ice driver)What setup did you have on the handling track mike? Looks like it handles well on the short stuffEdit this is the guy who took me out, and this is the same track.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1N_KZuXGkM Edited August 10, 2013 by The Toffinator Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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