Lewis_GTT Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Mine is set-up the same as below. With a breather on the catch can and with a gutted pcv Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nastyrash 2003 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 You can see how Gavin/ enzo_e..., has his setup in the photo above, on the 4efte for the same setup you'll have the catch can in the line from the pcv to the inlet manifold, on the turbo you would need a second one way valve to stop the catch can being pressurised - this won't happen on an na so it's not needed. The second breather can then be linked back into the inlet pre-turbo with just a simple hose.Now what confuses me is nastyrash was saying the catch can was needed before the throttle body not after yet agrees with the set up above where the can is after the throttle body?? I'm thinking a two catch can set up may be the best....Oh and one way valves can be got off ebay easily, it doesnt need to be an expensive pcv valve, I got a 9mm one way valve for a few quid.sorry cheif do not think u lads are going to grasp this unless u see diagrams, wot i mean by gavin understands the system is he has just told us exact how it works but i think his system he has at the min is not improving any thing from standard really as TB fouling is the main concern with this engine that i have found, but does depend on wat state of tune u are running. u can run a 1 tank system with check valves so the breather system works how it should but has a can in line. gavin is the only person i have talked to that can tell me how the system works and wat he is trying to do with it. engine breathing is important and having neg pres in the block helps in all kinda ways. just gutted people are not grasping the fundamentals of the breathers operation. chrisyep a 2 tank system would be the simplest way. and yes a check valve would be of benafit also on the pcv valve like has been said as another problem u creating putting a can in here is a larger volume of gas suplying the plenum and half way down which will give u turbulance if a check valve is not used. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dan507 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 wish I never looked at this thread. Going to go get some headache tablets. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WallaceGlanza Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I'm understanding it now that you need the vacuum from the inlet pulling through clean - filtered air from the inlet (with just a breather filter fitted there it may not perform too good as that small filter can get blocked with oil quickly, so this is best routed to the inlet pre turbo) which also pulls through the contaminants into the inlet manifold. This will only happen off throttle, at all other times the breather will be pulling out the contaminants (via the inlet pre turbo if routed this way) not letting the clean air in.So as I say ideally you would have the set up exactly as standard but with a catch can in each line and one additional check/one way valve at the inlet to stop your catch can being pressurised.You've both cleared it up for me anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nastyrash 2003 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 BINGO that 2 me would work great and no oil contam or vapour getting thw and keeping that all important block vac and circulation. now if u can work a piped system with check valves and thin pipes with only 1 can in it, i think u on to a money maker for a starlet as wat the hell are the race spec covers doing plz do tell can u see how bad thy are now. i know im going to get shouted at but pointless comp pointless and how much to take 2 steps backwards rip off people and makes me question this person understanding of engines ho made thm. we call these peolpe numpties in the tunning world. getting u to hand over cash with shiny pointless products.chris Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jamie1st Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Booom, think I've got it.The breather that has no pcv goes to the inlet per turbo (filter relocation pipe) with a catch can in between.The breather with the pcv goes to thE inlet with a catch can in between and an extra one way valve after the catch can.Correcto??Jamie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nastyrash 2003 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 and thr we have it ideas in action no guessin no bodging just pure sence.chris xxsorry about being a cock the other day lov it wen things get worked out this way. wont happen again (bad day). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WallaceGlanza Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 BINGO that 2 me would work great and no oil contam or vapour getting thw and keeping that all important block vac and circulation. now if u can work a piped system with check valves and thin pipes with only 1 can in it, i think u on to a money maker for a starlet as wat the hell are the race spec covers doing plz do tell can u see how bad thy are now. i know im going to get shouted at but pointless comp pointless and how much to take 2 steps backwards rip off people and makes me question this person understanding of engines ho made thm. we call these peolpe numpties in the tunning world. getting u to hand over cash with shiny pointless products.chrisI did say on my first post in this topic that two catch cans was the ideal setup. However I now actually know how the stock setup works and why not having the vacuum conected isn't best ie an open line running under the car may pull a vacuum at speed but not sitting on idle stationary plus you won't be pulling through clean air at all.Looks like I'll have to get another catch can unless I can think of a way to maintain the stock setup with a single can. Some coalescer cartridges for inside the cans would be good too..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nastyrash 2003 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 defo a good idea and 2 cans may be a bit ott to som people but like u said do a job right first time and improve on standard not take a few steps backwards. chrisan understanding of wat problem u have and how to correct it by understanding the engine breather systems or any other engine (car systems) u working on is a must in my book and remember if it aint broken or thr is no problem dont fix it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Liam_D Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 To much technical talk Whats the best way to do it then im majorly confused? Explain in simple words please Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnboy GT Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 defo a good idea and 2 cans may be a bit ott to som people but like u said do a job right first time and improve on standard not take a few steps backwards. chrisan understanding of wat problem u have and how to correct it by understanding the engine breather systems or any other engine (car systems) u working on is a must in my book and remember if it aint broken or thr is no problem dont fix it.Well apologies im taking so long to grasp this, but im not giving up till i get it. I understand what Gavin says about the negative pressure in the crankcase and what way the vacuum goes etc.. So from that this is what i have sussed in my head about the two can method...One line takes from the air filter relocation bend feeding into a can, which then runs to your intake..The next line takes from the PCV valve and into a can and then on to the inlet manifold. Your line from your air intake needs a check valve in it to prevent flow back to pre turbo meaning the oil/gas resides in the can.No need for a check valve in the other can because the PCV valve is doing that job?Im sorry if this seems easy to grasp, but my car had a half assed setup previous so i never had anything to learn from really off of mine. I wish this had come to light sooner, wouldnt have wasted my money on a racetech!John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
enzo_e492901 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Sorry guys just got back from work!Cheers Chris! <This man knows his stuff too lads!Yeah running two catch cans/tanks would be the ideal solution, one in line with each rocker cover pipe. But that's not practical. If only using one can there is a big debate as to which pipe to put it in. Some say you would catch more blow by with it installed in the intake vent pipe and some say the PCV pipe. You would need to look inside your throttle body at the front vs the inside of your inlet manifold to see where there is more oil that needs to be collected.Gavin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WallaceGlanza Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Well apologies im taking so long to grasp this, but im not giving up till i get it. I understand what Gavin says about the negative pressure in the crankcase and what way the vacuum goes etc.. So from that this is what i have sussed in my head about the two can method...One line takes from the air filter relocation bend feeding into a can, which then runs to your intake..The next line takes from the PCV valve and into a can and then on to the inlet manifold. Your line from your air intake needs a check valve in it to prevent flow back to pre turbo meaning the oil/gas resides in the can.No need for a check valve in the other can because the PCV valve is doing that job?Im sorry if this seems easy to grasp, but my car had a half assed setup previous so i never had anything to learn from really off of mine. I wish this had come to light sooner, wouldnt have wasted my money on a racetech!JohnThe check valve is needed in the same line as the pcv valve to stop the catch can being pressurised, you don't actually then need the pcv valve (as the new valve will act the same but just 'upstream' of the pcv valve) but it won't do any harm leaving it there. On the pcv line the flow is only into the inlet mani, but the other breather needs to be able to flow both ways so you don't want a check valve here, the only problem will be if you get chatter as this may pressurise the head.Liam the best method is using two catch cans, if everythin was still standard you simply put one can between the outlet from the pcv valve and inlet mani with an additional check valve before the manifold. The second catch can goes between the outlet from the second rocker cover breather into the turbo inlet. Basically if the standard hoses allowed all you would need to do is cut them in half and stick the can in the middle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
enzo_e492901 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Also there is nothing wrong with race spec rocker covers. Using large bore pipes can't hurt anything but people that use them need to use an in line check valve (non return valve) to act as a PCV valve.Gavin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fowcbler Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Why would 2 cans not be practical? If its the most ideal, then just get 2 cans and set them up the best way on the first go around. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
enzo_e492901 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I would say it's not practical for space reasons. If you have the space then it's all good!Gavin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nastyrash 2003 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 lets see som diagrams for john will back up the best.(the race spec) yep would rig in a vac pipe but thy get my goat, standard beats it hands down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnboy GT Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 The check valve is needed in the same line as the pcv valve to stop the catch can being pressurised, you don't actually then need the pcv valve (as the new valve will act the same but just 'upstream' of the pcv valve) but it won't do any harm leaving it there. On the pcv line the flow is only into the inlet mani, but the other breather needs to be able to flow both ways so you don't want a check valve here, the only problem will be if you get chatter as this may pressurise the head.Liam the best method is using two catch cans, if everythin was still standard you simply put one can between the outlet from the pcv valve and inlet mani with an additional check valve before the manifold. The second catch can goes between the outlet from the second rocker cover breather into the turbo inlet. Basically if the standard hoses allowed all you would need to do is cut them in half and stick the can in the middle.Ahh okay pal thanks for that, i was unaware that it didnt flow back away from the manifold. So placing a Check valve in the PCV line on the race tech rockers would cure it? A question i was going to ask, the port on the inlet manifold that will become free due to the racetech rocker, how could you plum that in to prevent it from being left open?CheersJohn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fowcbler Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy233/S.../catchcan-1.pngAnd between the intake manifold and the catch can, you add a 1-way check valve, or in essence another PCV valve.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
enzo_e492901 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 My very basic attempt at a drawing.Just to make sure, you can't use the same can for both pipes!Gavin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnboy GT Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Arite okay then, You and Fowcbler have the same drawing in essence. So achieving this setup through the one catch can is pretty difficult!?Im gonna go and see if there is a way it can be done..Makes sense now lads! That was a long trip . There is probably more that i havent got my head round yet, but i will.Appreciate the patience though!CheersJohn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
enzo_e492901 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I can't see a way with just one can, no. If you used one can the pipes would basically be connected together and one pipes function would interfere with the others function.Gavin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nastyrash 2003 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 well in lads, that was painful!!!!. good job gavin now do a race spec set up ??, just kidding and have got that out my system now!!. needed it out. chris.and just checked Fowcbler now and that is bang on the the 2 can system. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Johnboy GT Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Cant say im impressed at my self for taking so long but well well, i have a better understanding now..However chatter due to a pressurised head.... Have to go sort myself out with new catch cans and a new rocker cause my standard one isnt any good... Quality CheersJohn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nazzurro19 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 ive decided to leave it now Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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