yup, i agree with you there wullie, SXOC is a proper membership, with a proper owners club. tgtt is just a few irish lads and a paypal account. that said, i think they are onto a winner. 90%+ of the users of tgtt are elitist noobs, who think starlets are the greatest car ever made and all just sit there tugging each other off about how good their cars are. i recon LOADS of people will buy the membership, almost as a status thing; bragging rights, etc. its the reason that the site is so big and so devoid of character. there is loads of chuds who all think they are better than anyone else. thats why the community spirit there is shit. im a member on alot of forums (SXOC, S15OC, Driftworks, Detailingworld, yarisclub, etc) and none of them have the comradery or community spirit of this place. its why i still post here, the people. i dont own a starlet anymore, and dont plan to. but i still like it here as it has a family feel to it. if you started charging people for this place over and above donations i think it would lose that unique touch that alot of forums strive for and never achieve. i think what im trying to say is... i agree with geo!