Bluebear Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Jesus, didn't know this had happened! What a shitter. Glad that it didn't do a lot more damage than it already has to be honest!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DevonGT Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Do plugs just fail? Iridiums do, best to use copper. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
H_D Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Bad times - but at least its getting sorted out. What caused the sparkplug to fail??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ali_legend Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Tuner should have checked surely? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 (edited) Bad times mate Could well have been a lot worse for sure though so keep your chin up! You might wanna get yourself over on to TGTT, this has happened quite a few times regarding the exhaust valve breaking up, your answer will lay there Edit, its here for youhttp://www.toyotagtturbo.com/forums/showthread.php?99424-Latest-shananigans&highlight=broken+valve Edited May 13, 2014 by AdamB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azz Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Tuner should have checked surely?They were new plugs for mapping, one failed simple manufacturing error Bad times mate Could well have been a lot worse for sure though so keep your chin up! You might wanna get yourself over on to TGTT, this has happened quite a few times regarding the exhaust valve breaking up, your answer will lay there Edit, its here for youhttp://www.toyotagtturbo.com/forums/showthread.php?99424-Latest-shananigans&highlight=broken+valveWhat plugs would you have gone for Adam ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
turbo Grant Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Reminds me of an old max power VCR when the supra kills a hks spark plug. Just one of those things when you push a car to the max. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 They were new plugs for mapping, one failed simple manufacturing errorWhat plugs would you have gone for Adam ? I don't believe the plugs were the problem, if thats what's being told I would want reassurance that all plugs were removed from the shelf (assuming they were supplied by Race-Tech in the first place).It's not uncommon that an electrode from a spark plug falls off into the cylinder, however they don't "just fail", its usually down to an EGT issue, however the plugs would need to have their condition inspected. What grade plugs were used? Regarding which plugs to choose is quite irrelevant as it depends on the engines charcteristics, you also have to remember that a sacrifice has to be made, running a colder grade plug is fine for high speed running but may foul at lower speeds and vice versa. Another tip is that plugs from HKS, Greddy/Trust etc are all just re-branded NGK, Denso components. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Socks Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 They were Heat Range 8 plugs in the car and they were fresh plugs....I could have gone to Heat Range 9, but the issue being if I started the car from cold, stalled it while setting off, the plugs would be goosed and Id need to take them out and clean them before restarting the car. Not good for a street car! There were markings around the valve seat to suggest it was defiantly the plug that failed first and took the valve out and not vice versa... The other 3 plugs were showing signs of perfect running conditions and were perfectly intact... Ricky has been using those plugs in a range of high powered starlets and silly powered Hondas for years. I guess I'm just unlucky.... Story of my Life lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ricky@Race-Tech Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 They were NGK, We have used 100's without issues on various cars. They were heat range 8. The ceramic failed on 1 plug, the rest look perfect. I have spoken at length with Matt about plug choice. At the end of the day this is a street car, that we have pushed further than any other. Without doubt, when on full boost a heat range 9 would be a better options. But this is certainly going to have its drawbacks as you have correctly pointed out at the end of your reply. High EGT's and spark plug failures don't really go hand in hand. Generally high EGT's would be further from knock, which is what could cause a spark plug to fail. However. The pistons and other 3 plugs tell a different story. And the ceramic still should fail. I've seen plugs with melted tips before and ceramics completely intact. I don't believe the plugs were the problem, if thats what's being told I would want reassurance that all plugs were removed from the shelf (assuming they were supplied by Race-Tech in the first place). It's not uncommon that an electrode from a spark plug falls off into the cylinder, however they don't "just fail", its usually down to an EGT issue, however the plugs would need to have their condition inspected. What grade plugs were used? Regarding which plugs to choose is quite irrelevant as it depends on the engines charcteristics, you also have to remember that a sacrifice has to be made, running a colder grade plug is fine for high speed running but may foul at lower speeds and vice versa. Another tip is that plugs from HKS, Greddy/Trust etc are all just re-branded NGK, Denso components. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AdamB Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Sorry my mistake I thought it was the electrode that had failed and not the ceramic gauging by what was posted.High EGT's can cause the electrode to go into a molten state and drop off into the cylinder if hot enough, however since it wasn't the electrode that had failed then that's irrelevent now. Heat range 9's certainly wouldn't have been ideal I don't believe and should only be used when running exotic fuels and or nitrous, I believe Spuddy before had ran 440bhp on heat range 8's with no problems at all.Saying the plugs look perfect can be quite misleading in some cases, that's not the actual condition of the plug. How does the insulator look, what colour is it? Is there any deposits on it? Is the nose pitted or blistered? Are the electrode/s discoloured or eroded? etc etc. The condition of the combustion chamber looks like its wet in the pictures Matt posted, is there any signs of oil leakage from the valve stem seals or excessive clearence on the valve guides? Or is it just the way the picture comes across? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ricky@Race-Tech Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Sorry my mistake I thought it was the electrode that had failed and not the ceramic gauging by what was posted. High EGT's can cause the electrode to go into a molten state and drop off into the cylinder if hot enough, however since it wasn't the electrode that had failed then that's irrelevent now. Heat range 9's certainly wouldn't have been ideal I don't believe and should only be used when running exotic fuels and or nitrous, I believe Spuddy before had ran 440bhp on heat range 8's with no problems at all. Saying the plugs look perfect can be quite misleading in some cases, that's not the actual condition of the plug. How does the insulator look, what colour is it? Is there any deposits on it? Is the nose pitted or blistered? Are the electrode/s discoloured or eroded? etc etc. The condition of the combustion chamber looks like its wet in the pictures Matt posted, is there any signs of oil leakage from the valve stem seals or excessive clearence on the valve guides? Or is it just the way the picture comes across? To say the rest of the plugs look perfect I have taken into account everything you mentioned, we didn't get a true "plug chop" as Matt had run the car for a while after the issue. But the plugs if anything looked a little on the cold side. Matt was present, and gave the bores a quick "wipe" to remove any coolant drips fairly early, I'd have rather it been completely left untouched for pictures but never mind. We have inspected the rest of the head. Valve stem seals look great for the amount of time the engine has been built. Guides are still in good shape (and bad ones were replaced at rebuild time IIRC) As you pointed out earlier, you cannot really compare one engine to the next, cylinder pressure, fuel, timing and fueling all effect a plugs performance. Back to EGT's. High EGT's (exhaust gas temperatures) have no direct relationship with combustion temperature. Infact if anything are the direct opposite. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skimmy237 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 This thread has got really complicated now haha ! I hope you get the car sorted Matt ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
klyfax Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 My old car lost the ceramic on a plug to, that only killed the turbo. So it happens from time to time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
malanga31 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Hi Friends!!! What is he maximum temperature supporting the EGT 4EFTE engines? fully forged! Interestingly Sock's project, 400bhp is incredible. I currently have a project with similar specs and are my maximum EGT of 1400F to 1.68bar boost. Use spark Grade 7 and the last dyna test gave 316bhp.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
drongo boi Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Gutted for ya,dude! Hope ya get it sorted! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Socks Posted May 15, 2014 Author Share Posted May 15, 2014 That's Better All The Machine Work has been done. All the rest of the valves have been inspected and cleaned up. All is well again in the head on Sock's Glanza! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
H_D Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Good to see work in motionare you going for studs this time? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pick1 Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 When do u anticipate it being back on the road then mate ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 Since its already mentioned here is Texx's opinion on the subject. wonder if you had any carbon build up? Texx TGTT. More than likely the build up of ash on the back of the valve head has created a hotspot at the edge. If the hot spot gets hot enough it'll weld itself to the valve seat as the valve closes, then as the valve is pushed open again by the camshaft it breaks the welded part of the valve head off. If your lucky the broken off part of the valve gets dislodged and fired out of the exhaust port, if your not so lucky the broken off part drops into the cylinder and smashes the shit out of everything. Hopefully it's not damaged the turbo on the way out. Excessive ash deposits are usually caused by leaking valve guide/stem seals or from running poor quality fuels. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5e colin Posted May 15, 2014 Share Posted May 15, 2014 nice 1 head sorted now just the very expencive turbo to replace , or are you going to get that rebuild to ??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Socks Posted May 23, 2014 Author Share Posted May 23, 2014 Ok! So after lots of pretend crying and being really down about the car over the last week or so. (Having stunning weather hasn't helped!)Ricky's been keeping me posted, keeping me updated on progress of shipping of my new turbo from Garrett USA. I was told they wouldn't crack on with the engine reassembly until the turbo had arrived however, so they could blast it in one go...So I've practically been whatsapp'ing Ricky everyday, asking if there is updates on the turbo tracking number. Nope Nope, Left USA, Nope, Nope, Arrived in Customs, Nope, Nope, Nope, Nope..Message him this afternoon, is the turbo still in customs? Yeh man, not good....30mins pass and I get this pic:Turns out the sneaky fuckers at Race-Tech had been planning to get it done for me as a bit of a surprise for the bank holiday weekend. However they just ran out of time.So yeh, the engine has been reassembled for quite some time.The turbo arrived yesterday and the car has been run up, it sounds sweet apparently!Few Snaps of Assembly:Turbocharger wise, I've gone for the GTX version this time, (a Billet Wheel version) of pretty much the exact same turbo. The Compressor wheel is slightly bigger but I shouldnt be loosing any spool time!All being well ill get her back next week Excited! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jim* Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Awesome mate and what a great surprise from the guys at race tech! Can't imagine how it's felt after not having it for so long already! Hope you get to enjoy her when she's back mate! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rosso321 Posted May 23, 2014 Share Posted May 23, 2014 Some amount off work gone into this beast. I read what happened but will it happen again what have you done to resolve the issue happening again sorry it was mentioned above didn't spot it. Nice trick from race tech Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.